Ep. 480 Can You Reverse Menopause? What the Science Says with Zora Benhamou

I am thrilled to connect with Zora Benhamou today. She is a gerontologist and biohacker, dedicated to challenging stigmatized views of menopause and ageist stereotypes. She is also the host of the Hack My Age podcast, which focuses on empowering women navigating the menopause transition through biohacking techniques.

In our discussion, we cover various factors that influence menopausal timing and question whether it is possible to reverse menopause. We dive into midlife biohacks, such as blood-flow restriction bands, that deliver real results, and explore health optimization, how people become super agers, and the benefits of peptides, exosomes, and HRT. We also examine the issue of loneliness and clarify why mindset is crucial for aging with resilience.

This conversation is full of insights and takeaways, so you will likely return to it more than once. 

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU WILL LEARN: 

• Factors that could influence the menopause transition

• How stress and trauma can impact menopause timing

• The necessity of cultivating positive relationships

• How loneliness affects health

• Importance of challenging the brain with new activities as we age

• Zora explains where gadgets fit into her biohacking pyramid 

• The value of training with blood flow restriction bands 

• A closer look at the benefits of peptides

• How a positive attitude toward aging can lead to a longer lifespan

• Power of finding joy and humor in challenging times

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“We don't need to suffer through the symptoms of menopause because we have options.”

– Zora Benhamou

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• Submit your questions to support@cynthiathurlow.com

Connect with Zora Benhamou

• On her website

Transcript:

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:00:02] Welcome to Everyday Wellness Podcast. I'm your host, Nurse Practitioner Cynthia Thurlow. This podcast is designed to educate, empower and inspire you to achieve your health and wellness goals. My goal and intent is to provide you with the best content and conversations from leaders in the health and wellness industry each week and impact over a million lives. 

[00:00:29] Today, I had the honor of connecting with Zora Benhamou, who is a gerontologist and biohacker dedicated to challenging menopause stigma and ageist stereotypes. She's also the host of the Hack My Age podcast, which focuses on empowering women navigating the menopausal transition through biohacking techniques.

[00:00:51] Today, we spoke about many of the factors that affect menopausal timing, can we reverse menopause? The impact of midlife bio-hacks that actually work, the role of loneliness, how people become super agers, the role of health optimization, and specifically, what is blood flow restriction bands, the impact of peptides, exosomes and HRT, and lastly, why mindset is so important to age powerfully. This is an invaluable conversation, one I will know you will listen to more than once.

[00:01:30] Zora, such a pleasure to be connected to you. I know we've been having this ongoing discourse back and forth. So, much alignment. So, excited to have you on the podcast. 

Zora Benhamou: [00:01:39] Oh, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. Yeah. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:01:42] Yeah. Let's consider some of the factors that impact women and their menopausal transition. I think some of these were surprising for me, some were not. I think smoking, having a smoking history can be a big hastener of transitioning into menopause. But as you're in your work as a gerontologist, what are some of the biggest factors that impact when we are going to go into menopause or have that menopausal transition? 

Zora Benhamou: [00:02:13] Well, yes, I love to talk about this. This is the 12 factors of menopause age. When most of the time natural menopause happens and there's certain things we can control and certain things we cannot. But it is really interesting to see the factors that we can. But the biggest factor is something we cannot control, those are our genes. Your mother's menopause timing is most likely going to be yours. Although, I always say it's not your mother's menopause. It's not like you're going to have if she really struggled with this doesn't mean you're going to be as well. But it is one of the strongest predictors of when your menno birth date will be. 

[00:02:48] And actually, this would be interesting to ask you because I've been having this discussion. Women in my community are saying, “Well, I started hormone therapy before my menno birthday and we're talking about the 12 consecutive months without a period.” And then you're officially in menopause, which we know is such a stupid date, whatever that means. But it's this transition, the whole transition perimenopause is such a wild ride for some of us. But I would love to hear your take on because what they're telling me, well, I've been on this since I was having periods more or less regularly, but now that I've been on for five years or so, I'm clearly like, in the past, that average age, which is 51, how do I know when is my menopause birth date? 

[00:03:38] And that without stopping HRT and seeing how can I go 12 consecutive months without a period? Because most of them are saying, “I'm not stopping.” 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:03:48] Yeah, it's interesting, I think, that we've learned so much about timing of HRT and certainly seven, eight years ago, even as a clinician, as a nurse practitioner, even my wonderful nurse midwife and I were not having conversations about starting it prior to going into menopause. We were saying, you have a five-year window ideally for initiation of HRT. So, I suspect I was one of those people that suffered in my late 30s, early 40s without enough progesterone. I also have thin phenotype PCOS. And so, I had low progesterone levels that just got magnified a la, the sleep issues, anxiety and depression, which I'd never really experienced for very heavy menstrual cycles. 

[00:04:29] And so, at the time when I was having conversations initially with my GYN, the things that were offered to me were oral contraceptives, a progestin IUD, an ablation or hysterectomy, to which I was like, “No, no, no and no.” And so, then I transitioned to the midwife, who's wonderful and I believe she's the listener of the podcast. And so, I always say, “Courtney, thank you, wonderful guidance that you provided me with.” And she had said, “We have this period of time prior to that five-year mark of transitioning into menopause where it's optimal to get hormones started.” What's interesting is in 2018, she did an FSH. And for everyone listening, we know that follicular stimulating hormone you have to have drawn on multiple occasions to get a sense of how close you are to menopause. 

[00:05:15] And my numbers were high in 2018. So, I am definitely one of those people that was going to have an earlier menopausal transition than some of my peers. And then in 2018, I was telling you, I traveled to Morocco, got terrible food poisoning, came home, had a series of healthcare hiccups, ended up in the hospital. And for me, that was the end of my menstrual cycles. After that, I had no more because I had gotten very sick and lost so much body weight. So, for me, I think I'm a unique perspective. I never went through the process of initiating HRT prior to going into menopause. I think now we're doing a better job of controlling women's symptoms. And I say better job, we're still not where we should be. 

[00:05:57] You know, it's only 4% to 5% of women are actually taking hormone replacement therapy. So, we know there's many, many women that would benefit. And so, do I have women that come into programs or that we work with that will say, “I'm still getting a cycle every month” but in having conversations with providers like Dr. Felice Gersh, she sometimes will say, if a woman's going, a couple months in between having cycles and then has a very scant period, she said, that's really not a period, that's dysfunctional uterine bleeding. 

[00:06:27] And so I think for everyone listening, not to confuse things, it's just to say that, yes, there is now a push to get women initiated on hormone replacement therapy prior to that menopausal transition, which I think is wonderful because it allows women to control symptoms, whether they be vasomotor symptoms, sleep issues, sexual side effects, genitourinary symptoms, which are never pleasant to deal with. But it may continue, you having, whether it's every 60, every 90, every 120 days, you may continue having some cycles. And so, teasing it out with your provider, I think is going to be helpful. If it's really very, very scant, very irregular, you're probably knocking on menopause's door. And so, I think this is where a really good history. 

[00:07:13] This is where I tell people 90% of the information we need, we get in a really good history. So, when you're talking to your provider, giving them all the information and not allowing yourself to feel as if you need to leave anything out, I think I'd rather have more details than less. And so, I'm not sure if I answered your question the way that you were hoping for. But the point that I want to make is that we know now more than we did seven, eight years ago. Yay, rah, rah that's to everyone's benefit. And certainly, I was not someone who started HRT prior to that transition. And in fact, I had so few symptoms that initially I wasn't like 100% on board with starting. Somebody was like, “Oh, I have so much time.” 

[00:07:56] And then my midwife would gently say, “I'd rather get things started sooner rather than later.” And then once I did, I was like, “Oh my gosh, why did I wait?” 

[laughter] 

[00:08:05] So, I think anyone's listening if you're on the fence, take the progesterone and if the estrogen patch or something that's a set it and forget it option is offered to you, take it, don't wait. 

Zora Benhamou: [00:08:17] Yeah, you and I are so much in alignment. It's exactly what I would have said. And the question is very often alluding to when can I stop using contraception and a condom or whatever it is that they're using because they're confused. Like, wait, I'm kind still having a bleed. But like you said, “It is a fake bleed.” So that's why I was super interested in hearing your opinion, but is very, very much in alignment with me. But I want to talk a little bit about a couple of other things that will decide our meno age. A lot of people maybe not even know about it. And this is all based on just some of the research that I've done. And it's at the age that you got your first period. 

[00:08:57] So, if you started about the age of 16 or over, then menopause may be delayed by approximately one year. And so, okay, it's like pushing your reproductive years a bit farther. But when you started before the age of 12, then you're at 31% higher risk of an early menopause. So, the average age of menopause is 51. So, could be just a couple of a year or so earlier not huge. But again, it's because you started this reproductive cycle, going through your eggs a bit faster than the person who's then delayed their menarche. So that we can't control, but there are a couple things that we can control is the number of pregnancies we have if you're already still of reproductive years. 

[00:09:48] And so, the more pregnancies you have the later the menopause, but it's up to a point. So, the research has shown that women who've had three births had the latest onset, but after three, like you had four or five kids, there's no extra benefit. So that's interesting. And I've had plenty of people ask me too. They said, “Well, I haven't had kids. I have zero pregnancies.” Those people are at higher risk. It sounds like a bad thing of an early or premature menopause. And that I thought was super interesting. So, I don't know, your listeners are probably done with having babies, but you can't control it so much anymore. But I thought it was super interesting, maybe for somebody who's even younger. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:10:31] Yeah, I think certainly our generation has been so disconnected from our menstrual cycles and what they represent. Even as a clinician, I feel like I know more about the menstrual cycle now than I ever did before. Because we were the generation that every single girlfriend of mine, whatever period problem you had, you were put on the pill and we’re like, “This is a set it and forget it.” I just have to remember to take my pill. Maybe I get the benefit of a side effect of contraception on top of it. And for me, this thin phenotype PCOS, I had no idea. So, it wasn't until I was trying to get pregnant that all of a sudden, my very astute GYN said, “I think you've got a luteal phase defect.” I think you're someone that probably has always had wonky progesterone cycles and therefore we're going to need to do a little bit of technology-induced ovulation.

[00:11:21] So, I think for a lot of individuals when they hear that about early menstrual cycles, late menstrual cycles, couple of pregnancies, no pregnancies, understanding that we're born with a finite amount of eggs and anything that speeds up that cycle, I've actually had people ask if I've taken oral contraceptives, does that mean I saved more of my eggs? I don't know if the research, when you've looked at it, has helped answer that question, but that is a question we get often on the podcast.

Zora Benhamou: [00:11:49] Yeah, actually it is. It is. Because you are stopping the use of those eggs. So, there is a little bit of research showing that not so that everyone should go on birth control to try to delay menopause, but it does play a role. So, there's other things that you'd hear that at least the research is showing. But I don't necessarily think you should be doing this. So, one other factor that affects your menopause age is weight. Like if we're looking at BMI, which you and I probably know, it's not an exact predictor of things. But if you are underweight, you're more likely to have an earlier menopause. But if you're obese, a BMI of over 30, you're going to probably have later menopause. 

[00:12:30] And there was this one study that I found that showed obese women had 50% higher odds of menopause after age 52, 53. So it's like, “Oh boy.” But obviously obesity has other risks now [laughs] that we don't really want. So, it's not like to encourage people to go and get heavier. But that's just what's showing this correlation. And the same thing with alcohol that also bothers me. I'm like, “Oh my God. There is the people who are moderate drinkers and they can enter menopause later and the people who don't drink at all, they may have an earlier onset.” So, again, it's not a reason to start drinking. But alcoholic obesity has these other risks. But I just, when I found that I'm like, “Oof, okay.” And it doesn't always correlate when I ask somebody who is a drinker or somebody who is obese, it doesn't always correlate that way. It's just with some of the research is showing.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:13:25] Well and it's been my clinical experience that most of my thinner patients, thinner colleagues, thinner friends transition into menopause. 47, 48, 49, pretty consistently. I do have a college roommate who is still getting cycles and she's going to be 53 this year. And I think that's just an anomaly. But we're talking about like averages. So, it doesn't mean that every single person falls into that bell-shaped curve phenomenon. But that being said, these are generalities that we're observing. In your clinical experience, what role does trauma play in hastening of menopause? Because I think this research in particular is really, really interesting. 

Zora Benhamou: [00:14:08] You know, trauma definitely has an impact and it is accelerating earlier menopause for sure. And this can happen because of the stress obviously on the body, but you'll see it as well in certain underdeveloped countries as well. If those people are also experiencing a bit more trauma as well as poor healthcare. And that plays a role, in terms of just the healthcare or maybe it's the nutrition and absolutely the stress. And also, environmental stressors play a role in that. There's some research showing that higher exposure to lead or arsenic, there are some associations there with an earlier menopause. So, definitely it's something again, we can't control childhood trauma, which we know.

[00:14:55] I mean, as a gerontologist, we study the whole life course from birth to death to understand what's happening, why people get certain diseases. And we certainly look at ACEs, these Adverse Childhood Experiences and how that impacts, yeah, people's disease state. But we haven't studied-- I did a whole podcast episode and we didn't cover menopause at all. We had 20 minutes, 30 minutes on menopause [laughs] and I was the one beating the drum, like, “Please, can we add this to the curriculum? I can't understand.” So unfortunately, we haven't researched, at least in gerontology, which I think is a huge mistake, and hopefully they'll change that. But yeah, we do know that trauma and stress do play a role not only when your menopause birthday will happen, but as well as other disease states.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:15:44] Yeah. And it makes so much sense. As I was writing my book and I spend an entire chapter talking about ovarian senescence. So, the aging of our ovaries, it's the pacemaker of aging for our bodies as women. And there was a study that I ran across that I think Dr. Mary Claire put on my radar in one of our discussions. But it was looking at women that have sustained childhood sexual abuse. If they go on to have children who then are also sexually abused, it will hasten their transition into menopause by eight years.

Zora Benhamou: [00:16:16] Wow. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:16:17] Eight years. 

Zora Benhamou: So, that is huge. I haven't heard that. 

Cynthia Thurlow: So, you start to think about not just the impact of stress on ovarian senescence, but the epigenetic changes that are occurring in the offspring. And so, you just start to understand it really becomes this domino effect. And I do talk about trauma quite a bit on the podcast because I just think as we are learning about that interrelationship between the autonomic nervous system and the chronic stress on our bodies, I think a lot of people are very high functioning individuals that have experienced quite a bit of childhood trauma and so high ACE scores, etc. And because they're so professional and so well accomplished they just make these assumptions. So, I always like to interject that trauma is the gift that keeps on giving. And I don't say that lightly.

[00:17:05] I think that just understanding that it could be five different factors that come together to converge to transition you into menopause a little earlier, a little later, as you mentioned, some things we can control, some things we can't. And it's just helping people build greater awareness around this topic.

Zora Benhamou: [00:17:22] Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm so glad you brought that. And I think people are so afraid of menopause. I think the younger generation, we see these horrifying, funny Reels on Instagram or Facebook and they're scarily so the women who are reaching out to me a bit younger, they're so afraid. I don't want this to be me. I want to stop it from happening. Do I have to go through menopause? Can I avoid it? Can I biohack it? Let's like figure this out. And I think, yeah, we need to normalize this conversation, but we also are providing what you and I are doing is that we don't need to suffer. It's a natural transition in life, but we can obviously don't need to suffer through the symptoms because we have options absolutely. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:18:06] Well, and it's interesting, there was a recent guest, a wonderful Duke-trained orthopedic surgeon, and she and I were talking about her new book and she mentioned that her teenage daughter said “I'm terrified of menopause.” And I said, “Clearly we're doing a good/not such good job.” Teenagers are now fearing menopause, although for them many years away. So, the question is, can we reverse menopause? Is that even possible? Because inevitably these are the questions that I'm sure that you field and the questions that we field as well. Can we reverse menopause? Is this something we want to consider reversing? Is that even possible to biohack your way out of menopause? 

Zora Benhamou: [00:18:43] Good question. It's a good question because I think that's what everybody wants to do when you're afraid of this. And it depends on what's your definition of menopause? Right. When we talk about menopause, I've interviewed over 200 women around the world and asking them five questions about menopause and what they say. And I meet plenty of women who are in their 60s. I didn't go through menopause.

[laughter]

I am like 70, I didn't do menopause. I'm like, “What do you mean? Do you still have a period?” They are like, “No”

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:19:11] I just opted out of admitting that I've gone through it. 

Zora Benhamou: [00:19:13] But their definition is I didn't suffer through symptoms that I was aware of because some of them have osteoporosis, some of them do have heart disease. They don't make this association. So, they are in menopause, they are post menopause. We are always in menopause, past this menopause period. [laughs] So that's why it's important to say what is your definition? Yes, we can reverse the symptoms, absolutely. But no, we cannot. At least I haven't found yet any evidence of actually-- well, there is some ovarian rejuvenation to somewhat that you can do, but your hormones will eventually decline no matter how healthy you are. I bet you and I probably, we first heard about this. We're going to hack our way. [Cynthia laughs] We're going to just delay this as much as we possibly can. And we probably have delayed it with all the practices that we do.

[00:20:01] So, we certainly can delay menopause like I just mentioned. But reversing menopause, like if you were already in menopausal state, I haven't found any evidence yet and I don't think it's a problem. We can reverse some of the symptoms of your osteoporosis. We can reverse osteoporosis. If you have diabetes, yes, we can reverse these things, but who cares about reversing menopause, honestly, unless you want your periods back and that's fine. And that's some doctors that you and I have both interviewed say this is a sign that your hormones are at their optimal level, but you're not ovulating, you're not going to get pregnant. And when you do rejuvenate your period [laughs] to come back, it's often just a light bleed. It's nothing that you fear. Especially those women who've had the murder crime scenes types of periods. It's definitely not like that.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:20:53] Yeah, no, I, I have actually said to more than enough women that the things that I do not miss about having menstrual cycles is I had those super heavy crime scene periods. I would pray my periods would not start while I was rounding in the hospital because there was not a super plus tampon and pad that would allow me to round for an hour or two without bleeding through my scrubs, which was not a pleasant experience for anyone. So, when I talk about reversing symptoms of menopause, I think that sounds great. And I think most, if not all of us are like, yes, we are on board with that. And I agree that there are definitely clinicians out there that talk about women resuming keeping their hormone levels at where they were in their 20s and 30s. 

[00:21:36] And I think the research is still out on long-term benefits. I mean, for me, I would not want to be cycling, I would not want to be having a bleed, I would not want to have any of those things. I'm happy to have put my tampons and pads and donated them to the women's shelter. I'm happy to not have those things in my house anymore. It's just one less thing to worry about. But in terms of when we talk about helping to reverse the symptoms of menopause, starting with lifestyle, what are some of your favorite things to discuss with your patients, your clients about, what are the foundational elements to navigating middle age and doing it in a way that supports our health and is not lending itself to a lot of inflammation, oxidative stress, poor metabolic health, a lot of the sequelae that we see with women with this decline in hormones.

Zora Benhamou: [00:22:26] It's a good question. And I think like you mentioned, there's this foundation, there's this stuff that we know, honestly, it's nothing new. It's the proper nutrition, adequate exercise or physical activity and recovery, because we always forget about that, especially for instance [laughs] active like you and me. But we also have the sleep and the stress management component, all that. And then we also have to consider our community, our purpose in life. This is the foundation. This is something that for aging in general, menopause or not, is very, very important. And I don't know if you've ever heard me talk about the Harvard Study of Adult Development. It's one of my favorite studies to quote. It's one of the longest longitudinal studies on adult development. It started in 1938 with Harvard students, originally men, but then they eventually got into the offspring and women as well. 

[00:23:21] And what they found, I think it was 2017, more or less, after 70 something years of research. And they started off with just questionnaires and blood work and moved on to MRIs and genes and all that. And so, they decided and they concluded that more than what makes a bigger impact on people living healthier, longer and happier, more than exercise, more than smoking, more than all the things that you and I know with strong positive relationships. And this is one of the biggest bio-hacks I think people keep missing in life. And I love to talk about nutrition and all the other cool peptides and awesome hormones and all these things that can help us for sure, not saying that they don't have meaning. They absolutely are super important and they're part of that foundation. 

[00:24:07] But a lot of people miss this point of nurturing their network, nurturing the people around them, having a supportive community, having good friends or a partner there. And that makes a huge impact on your health and well-being. And I always recommend people to really spend time with those people who are supporting you and getting rid of those toxic relationships because those toxic relationships are going to bring you down, among many other things. So that's one of my favorite things to talk about and remind people to please nurture your network.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:24:39] I think it's really important because we know that loneliness is akin to smoking in terms of how detrimental it is to our health. I'm an introvert so I can keep my group of people really small and I'm totally happy, or you're an extrovert and you get great pleasure and energetic capacity being around others. Whether it's volunteering, like my grandmother, my mom's mom, she volunteered until she was 90 and it was because she loved going to the senior center. She wanted to be of service to others. I think, whether it's you're part of a gardening club or you sit on a board or you volunteer at your church, or you volunteer in your grandkids classroom, I mean, it is so important for us as humans, we are social beings. 

[00:25:22] And the adage of being around individuals that bring you joy is certainly very important. I'm oftentimes surprised at the amount of individuals not just professionally, but also personally, people that will say they're either in a toxic relationship or they have toxic loved ones, or they have a friend that's toxic. And I'm like, life is entirely too short to be around people that are provoking that autonomic nervous system. They're disturbing your peace, they're putting you in a sympathetic dominant state and we know that chronic elevated cortisol is detrimental to our health in many many ways. So, obviously easier said than done. If someone has a toxic spouse easier said than done, but the choice of people that we spend time with has to be something that we are conscientious about, we are methodical about.

[00:26:11] I think the older that I get, the more, I guess what I would say is the more selective I am about who comes into my world, who's in my home, who I'm spending time with. Because life is precious. It is so, so precious. If you are working with individuals who feel like they're struggling with the socialization piece, maybe they're an introvert or maybe they just feel like-- maybe they're semi-retirement, they're not around people as much. Are there activities or things that you encourage them to engage in that can be helpful not just for the socialization piece, but also for brain health? Because we know, looking at the research, it's so important that we continue to learn as we get older. Jokingly, my teenagers will say, “I can't wait to finish college. “ I'm like, “Oh, you'll be a lifelong learner.” You have to be thinking that way. It's not like I'm done learning at 21 and I don't ever need to learn again for the rest of my life, but understanding how important it is for not just mental stimulation, but also brain health as well. 

Zora Benhamou: [00:27:06] I have so much to share. [Cynthia laughs]. I love these questions. They're so up my alley. And I want touch on a couple of things that you said. One, you mentioned loneliness kills and absolutely the impact that it has on the body. Loneliness, the physical impact is the same as smoking 17 cigarettes a day. And the other thing is that we have to also distinguish between loneliness and being alone. They're very different. And we saw this in COVID as well. Everyone seemed to be alone at some point. And so, it's loneliness is different than being alone. Alone, you can still feel quite connected. There are people out there who like to be alone or enjoy their own company. And that's fine, that's not dangerous. It's being lonely. You can be surrounded by people, but you don't feel heard, you don't feel seen. Nobody understands you. So, you are feeling lonely. 

[00:28:01] And that can happen to anyone from a young age to an older age. And so, we need to be very cognizant of that. And how can we get out of that? And when you mentioned that being selective with the people I spend my time with, that goes in complete alignment with a theory called the socioemotional selectivity theory of aging. And studies show that as we age, we get closer to death. And so, our timeline is shorter. We understand we have much more limited time. So, and we're not so motivated to make connections, make new friends, have new opportunities, which what younger people do, we never know where that's going to lead us to a new job and a new relationship. We want to try to build as many relationships as we can when we're younger, we have that motivation, but as we get older, we realize through experience that maybe not everyone serves us and we don't have much time left on the earth. So, we want to spend time cultivating, nurturing those relationships that are making us feel good and making us feel positive. 

[00:29:04] So, you are right in alignment with the research. And I also loved what you said, is that becoming a lifelong learner is super important. That will keep our brain healthy and that will keep us healthier, happier, longer. And that is not so easy because humans like to be in their comfort zone. We don't like to challenge ourselves. And so, when we are learning new things, our brain is activating, we are making new neural connections. And we know that the brain is neuroplastic, meaning it can change now, we used to think, oh, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but now we know we can. And so, when you're doing things, I would say, what can you do? Well, anything that stimulates the brain, makes you learn and things that you like. Because if I tell you dancing is one of the best things for your brain because you're getting physical activity, you're having to learn new choreography and you have to make social connections and dance with someone or be in a group. But you don't like dancing. That's useless. 

[00:30:03] Although I do love dancing and that's my jam. And I know that there's so much research supporting that. So, it's a kind of an all in one. It hits that sweet spot of the brain, the physical and the emotional and the social connection. But I also love travel. I think travel is very stimulating and it's a challenge. It's not always fun and exciting. You have to get comfortable with other people speaking other languages. Think about when is your next flight and not to miss it and you feel this a little bit of stress. Now if it stresses you out too much and you hate traveling, don't do it. But if you enjoy it, it's a good thing because you're also disrupting normal patterns of behavior that you're doing every single day, waking up, making the same breakfast, driving to work and doing your work and then going home, like it's the same thing. 

[00:30:56] If you ever listen to Dr. Dale Bredesen, who's brilliant, he's wrote this book on how to reverse Alzheimer's or The End of Alzheimer's, that's what he wrote. And he's just brilliant. And he talks about how just simple changes to your day-- So, I'm saying travel, but you have to travel. You could just take a different route to work or you can change your routine of exercise in the morning, exercise in the afternoon. And these little things can help also shift brain patterns. So, finding anything that you enjoy doing, I think learning languages. I'm a linguist and I speak six languages, and I just love learning new ones because it's stimulating the brain. But also, I'm a social person and I love to be able to talk to somebody in their own language. So, I will continually learn languages. And that's super powerful for the brain and very useful if you do happen to travel and like all these connections. 

[00:31:50] So, I could rattle off a million and one things, but I think anything that is really new, and I want to also stress that-- it has to hurt a little bit if you want to be a super ager, okay. So, super agers are the kind of people that you think, “Oh, they're in their 80s and they're just sharp as a tack.” There's no delay in their speech. They're always doing something new and they remember things quite well. Those people are doing the heavy lifting. And the way it works is that imagine you're going to the gym and you talk a lot about muscle and building muscle. In order to get those adaptations, it has to hurt a little bit, right. And then you need to rest and recover, obviously. 

[00:32:26] But when you're making the progressive load, you're actually building the muscle-- tearing the fibers, building it up again. But the same thing happens to the brain when you're trying to remember. How do they say bread in Chinese? Gosh, don't tell me. I know it. And then it's going to come and that's making that neural connection. And I was studying Chinese. The teacher was always telling me the word. She said, “How do you say this?” And I didn't remember. And she would tell me, and I said, “Stop it. You're not letting me [crosstalk].” 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:32:57] Flounder [laughs].

Zora Benhamou: [00:32:58] Yes. So that's what I want to mention is that whether it's learning a language or learning algebra or doing something that's a little bit more challenging, you're going to get to the next level. So, I mean, that is next level. But anything that stimulates the brain is probably pretty good for you. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:32:58] I can think on probably two hands of my superager patients when I worked in cardiology, that would come in and they were adept. I left clinical cardiology nine years ago, so we're talking 10, 15 years ago that were adept with whatever technology they had on them. They were super adept with their iPad. They would bring their iPads to show me things. They would show me things on their iPhones. And these are people in their mid to late 80s, early 90s, sharp as tacks. Being a superager to me is really, really important. And I love and really respect and admire that you speak six languages, because that was not my gift. I got a lot of gifts in life, but that was not my gift, is not the ability. I'm not a multi-linguist. 

[00:33:57] But it's interesting you mentioned the travel piece. And I can say without question, when you travel, especially internationally, you have to be like I say to my kids, you have to just roll with it, because sometimes you have zero control. And I will share with listeners because I think this is funny. We were flying out of Bucharest to Istanbul, and the way the Bucharest airport works, it's kind of like they wait to tell you which gate you're leaving from. So, everyone is just standing, waiting for a gate, and then once they tell you what gate it is, then you can check in. 

[00:34:31] So, we were there really early, and I think it was two hours later we finally got a gate assignment. And then there were, I don't know, 150 people trying to check in, and there's no order. The Romanian people at that airport, no order to the lines. And Americans like their lines. They like order. They like everyone to be in order. And it was pushing and shoving, and my kids were like, “Oh, my gosh, I've never seen anything like this.” And I said, “We're getting closer to the front. All I want to do is check our bags, then we're going to get to the gate.” I mean, it was such a fascinating situation because all the Americans were completely flummoxed. They're like, “Wait a minute, there's no order, there is no order here.” And I kept saying to the kids, I know this is frustrating. We have to just roll with it. We're eventually going to get to the counter. We're eventually going to check our bags, we're eventually going to get to Istanbul, it'll be fine. 

[00:35:16] But the adaptability to being in this mode, like you don't speak the language, you're trying to navigate, you're just trying to be polite. Hopefully someone speaks enough English so you can get from point A to point B. But also, the point about whether it's doing crossword puzzles, learning a language, teaching yourself. Like my husband decided he wanted to teach himself Python, which is coding. And he just said it very casually like, “I've been teaching myself Python.” And I was like, “What?” And I'm in the midst of like a peptide deep research mode. So, explaining to people that the reason why I think that we will age intellectually, cerebrally better is because we're challenging ourselves on the regular. 

[00:35:55] So, it doesn't necessarily have to be you leave to go to a foreign country, but finding ways to challenge your brain in a way that is not easy. Like, we don't want to be comfortable. You mentioned that it's human nature to want to be comfortable. And I'm here to tell people we need to be comfortable being uncomfortable, like that needs to be our norm. I had to laugh-- my 19-year-old reorganized my phone and I went to check in at the airport before a trip and I was like, “Dang it, where did you put that app from the airport?” [Zora laughs] Searching through I had a minute of panic. Then I was like, “Wait a minute, think like a 19-year-old and then you'll figure it out.” 

[00:36:30] With that being said, I feel like through my kids, I'm not sure if you feel the same way. They are much better with technology than our generation is. So, things come to them much more intuitively. And sometimes they'll just look at me like, “Why didn't you find that to be easy?” And I'm like, “Because I had to think five extra steps before you did.” But that doesn't mean that's a bad thing because next time I'll remember. Do you find generationally with your children that sometimes there are things that just come much more easily and effortlessly for them in terms of technology in particular. 

Zora Benhamou: [00:37:00] I think it's true in some ways because they've learned it before me. Because when I was doing my Masters of Gerontology, I was with mostly 20-year-olds, they just graduated and I was teaching them how to do a Zoom call, how to use social media. I couldn't believe how little they knew. And it's not because I'm smarter or I'm better at it. It's because I learned it before they did. So, I think our children just got access to the information first. And then because I've taught my kids things too and so, I think that's just the problem. And perhaps younger people are exposed to these. So, we may think an older person may not be so interested. Or it's like, I don't care about social media. I don't need to know how to post a reel, honestly. 

[00:37:45] And it's their choice. That's fine too. They can go do something else to exercise their brain. But I think if you were to tell an older person, say, “Well, I'll give you a million dollars if you can figure out how to make a reel and post it on Instagram,” I bet you they will find out real fast. [laughs] 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:38:02] Yeah, absolutely. 

Zora Benhamou: [00:38:03] The motivation.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:38:04] My kids will say, like, “Oh, you need to be doing such and such on TikTok.” And I'm like, “Oh, because you are the TikTok aficionado. I'm not, I'm not appealing to a teenager 20 something. I'm appealing to an older age group. And I don't think I have to do quite so many steps to make the TikTok video as captivating as it needs to be for someone who has the attention span of seconds. And I know that's the way that the TikTok really work. It tends to focus on, like, if you don't catch someone's attention very quickly, people scroll on, move on. In terms of-- when we're looking at and I hate the term biohacking because I think that in many instances it's really like misapplied, misunderstood.

[00:38:44] What are some wearables that you think are helpful? And again, the biohacking term I think gets misused because I don't think we're trying to hack ourselves out of the fact that we are the stage in life that we are, but we are trying to better understand our physiology as it is changing. Are there wearables? Are there items that you feel like are of greatest benefit because there are so many gadgets that are out there. I think sometimes I will have patients or clients that are willing to buy the Oura Ring, but they're not willing to focus on their sleep. I would say, like, the gadgets-- [crosstalk] 

Zora Benhamou: [00:39:17] You can do it for them. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:39:18] Exactly. The gadgets are sexy, but in the context of the greater good where do gadgets fit into the conversation for you?

Zora Benhamou: [00:39:27] Yeah, I love this conversation. I love wearables. I'm a gadget girl. I understand 100%. The whole biohacking message that people are getting is that we're afraid of death. Let's be youthful forever, and let's hack our way out of this so that we can drink and still party and then do some hack to offset the damage. That's not my definition of biohacking. I have a very different definition. It's generally health optimization. Like, we're just trying to optimize certain things. We want to be better than just the average. So, when it comes to the gadgets, I always describe this my biohacking pyramid. 

[00:40:04] The foundation that we just talked about I told you, the sleep, the exercise, the nutrition, all those things we know that. And then the middle tier of this is the supplements and the ice bath and the sauna and things you probably wouldn't need a doctor for but are fun to experiment with. And then the very top tier is stuff that you probably would need a doctor for maybe a hormone therapy or some kind of injections, regenerative medicine and all that. And people think biohacking is all about the gadgets in that middle or the top tier, and middle or top tier don't work so well, if at all, if we don't have the foundation right. And that's why I always say, just get the foundation, those hacks.

[00:40:40] Met plenty of women who do have the foundation right. And they need the middle and the top tiers. We need some of that support. So, when it comes to gadgets. And I could talk about gadgets all day long, but if I had to choose one, this appeals to the menopause. I [unintelligible [00:40:56] call menopause coach in me or the gerontologist in me. It's blood flow restriction bands. And this is because we know as we age, sarcopenia is if we don't work on our muscle, it's there waiting at the door. And we also know that as we go through this menopause transition, women are struggling with building muscle because we have lost many of our hormones that are supportive of this. And I love these blood flow restriction bands. And I'm going to explain it in a second is because it's supportive now.

[00:41:26] I don't think that it should replace exercise or eating enough protein. It's not going to do the job if you don't do those things. But when you are restricted, when you are 85 years old and you are not going to go lift heavy weight because you could injure yourself or if you just had surgery. I just had two hip replacements and I had osteoarthritis, which is a whole other conversation. I was not able to move very much for two years and I've been able to maintain and build muscle with these bands also working on the foundation, getting enough protein and all that stuff. But they've been a key player for me. I've seen it not only myself, but I've been talking about this for, I don't know, probably about five years. 

[00:42:08] I've started with many different types of bands out there. They all work, they're all great. You don't have to buy anything fancy. It's just knowing how to use them. And what they are is they are bands that you put on your arms or your legs. Some of them are just literally a glorified tourniquet and some of them have some blood pressure bulb, it looks like a blood pressure cuff, and some of them are Bluetooth and some have tubes, they're all over the place. But what they're doing is they're inflating some air in there or tightening them for partial blood flow restriction so that you are activating growth hormone, especially on the release when you open that up. So, there are contraindications. So, obviously talk to somebody special who understands what this is, if this is for you or not. 

[00:42:52] But there are some bands that have been able to build muscle on 104-year-old woman when done properly and safely. Some of these bands are created for cardiac rehab patients. So, there are some that you do have to be very careful if you have heart conditions and some that are very beneficial for that. So, if there's a whole gamut out there, so don't just go to Amazon, start buying cuffs because you heard me say this, like, reach out to me and I'll help guide you through this or find someone who understands what it's about. Usually physical trainers and bodybuilders, the two people you'll see on Google or YouTube, the bodybuilders trying to get extra gains with little weight. And then there's the rehab people who are trying to help their patients who are injured or who've had surgery. And you add these on to whatever you can do. So, I think this is one of the best gadgets and I've seen it with many, many people, not just me working when you do that. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:43:45] Well, this is the first time we're talking about this on the podcast. So, these bands, how often are you using them and when you're working with someone, how frequently-- what's the duration and frequency in terms of utilizing them? You just mentioned again you had bilateral hip replacements. You had two years where you weren't able to do heavy lifting. This is significant. I think this is exciting to learn about this.

Zora Benhamou: [00:44:10] Yeah. I don't know why. And when I was studying gerontology, I was like, “Why isn't anybody talking about this? This is ridiculous.” And I understand the contraindications, of course, but it's kind of like saying HRT good, bad. No, there's a whole spectrum of things that we can use and sprays and gels and creams. That's the same thing with blood flow restriction. Some people call it targeted compression training, some people call it partial blood flow restriction, some people call it targeted compression training, some people call it partial blood flow restriction, some people call it occlusion. There's many words out there, but they're all, what they're saying is they're partially restricting the blood flow. So, if I have somebody coming to me, I have to look at them like, “How old are you? What issues are you having?”

[00:44:47] Before I actually would say use it this many times in this thing because also depends on which device you bought because they're all different. So, generally speaking, if you're getting a surgery and you're injured, it's a different protocol than if you are generally healthy and just want to add this on to your protocol. So, I always like to build people up so that you can use this thing daily. You can use it and usually it's a 10-minute cycle. It's not like you need to exercise for an hour with these things most of the time. So, because it is restrictive, if it doesn't have a cyclical mode where it inflates for 30 seconds and deflates for five seconds those kinds of bands are easy to use. You can go on for a long time with those. You don't feel it, but it's working. Your body thinks it's doing 100 burpees. You don't feel like you're doing 100 burpees, but your body is convinced it's doing it.

[00:45:41] But the other bands that are compression and they stay there 5, 10 minutes and most people are like, “Oof. Let me just get these things off because they're starting to be uncomfortable.” It's that discomfort though, sometimes that's where we need to go into a little bit. That's all you really need. And to have the gains that you're looking for in addition to getting the sleep, eating your protein. And I don't want people to think, oh, I just buy these bands and let's see what happens. So, the protocol would be different for different people in different stages of life in different circumstances.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:46:12] Yeah, that makes so much sense. And this is adjunctive. This is not the primary focus. This is in addition to the other things that we're doing. Let's touch on peptides. This is a topic that I personally have a tremendous interest in. Listeners, this will not be part of the book, but there will be content created around this. And I have been very transparent that I've started some peptides mostly for immune system support because we know that our immune system takes a hit in middle age. When you're talking about peptides, let's talk about some of your favorites, how they work mechanistically. What are you excited about in terms of peptide therapy, which is different than hormone therapy, other types of supplements. This is its own entity.

Zora Benhamou: [00:46:53] I'm so excited that you're taking a deep dive into this. And I think more people need to dive deeper into it including myself, I've only scratched the surface, I've interviewed plenty of people on the topic, but I've had my own experience with it that I'd love to share in terms of recovery post-surgery and the two peptides that have made the biggest impact for me personally. And I'm getting feedback from others because when you talk about something and you mention others start to use them and I get their feedback on how it's helped them and the protocol I got-- So, when it comes to peptides, again, don't buy anything you find online. Get guidance from somebody. This is not the kind of thing-- [crosstalk] 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:47:35] Probably from China. It's probably not what it appears to be. Yeah, you have to get it from a reputable place. Generally, they're prescribed therapies prescribed by a provider.

Zora Benhamou: [00:47:44] And I prefer people to work with somebody who knows what they're doing. And because again, the same thing, the dosage, the frequency has got to be tailor made. And so, I got a protocol from several people in my world, my biohacking world, and guests that I've interviewed and regenerative medicine specialists. And the protocol I got there were two very key important ones which was BPC-157 and TB500. They're the most talked about peptides on podcast circuits around. And it's because it's got enough of a safety profile. Most doctors or prescribers feel safe giving this and it's almost hard to overdose. They tell me like, “Oh, you can keep going with this--” There's some peptides like only two weeks and very careful and this is the dosage. But BPC-157 has a little bit more wiggle room. 

[00:48:35] And so for me, although BPC-157 is a peptide that's very often used for gut issues and you can take it orally, you can take it intranasally, you can take it with intramuscular, injecting yourself. I personally do not like injecting myself. I know I'm a biohacker, but I don't like doing that. So, I tried to talk my way out of it. But because I had hip surgeries, the advice I got was you need to bring out the big guns. This is a serious thing. You can't just get it with taking a supplement. So, when it comes to the world of peptides, there's the oral, there's intranasal, then there's the injectables. So, the injectables usually most of the time will have a more profound effect than something that you're taking orally. So TB500 is a synthetic version of Thymosin beta 4, Thymosin beta 4. So TB4, which you may heard.

[00:49:25] TB4 is the natural component, but the TB500 is the synthetic, but it's cheaper and it's a bit more targeted. And TB4 is actually more broad range, does more things and it's natural, but it's a little bit more expensive. So, I went with the TB500 and it was because for my case I needed tissue regeneration, I needed to have more better blood flow, I needed better muscle support and the gut support I figured even though I didn't have known gut issues, [laughs] maybe talk to a gut specialist just because you don't feel it doesn't mean you don't have it. Not that I knew of. I felt like you're getting so much medication, you're getting antibiotics, you're getting anesthetic, I should protect my stomach anyway. 

[00:50:16] So, I'm sure that helps with that as well. So those are my two favorites in my own experience and some of the feedback that I'm getting in terms of the world of peptides. But I've got some other peptides depending on which it's just so cool, the world of peptides you can target different areas. And I'm now exploring the world of GHK-Cu, which is a copper peptide for skin and the scars. That's again, that was one of the peptides that was recommended. Get that on your scars. So, now I'm put on my scars, my face, I'm now bathing in it. Body lotions and everything. And that's a really cool peptide as well for skin and scar. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:50:52] Yeah. It's interesting. There are peptides that are used for sleep. There are some that are used for tissue recovery. There are people out there that are using peptides to build muscle. Obviously working with a provider that is licensed that is prescribing these for you. Don't go jump on Amazon or these other websites. In fact, my functional med doc was saying, “When I refer you to this compounding pharmacy, I don't get a kickback from them.” But if you go online, yes, you could probably find really inexpensive BPC-157, but you don't know what you're ingesting. And so, it's in my clinical experience working with someone that is familiarized with appropriateness, duration of therapy. As you said, some of these peptides are cycled on and off. 

[00:51:40] Some like BP-157 I have a feeling I'm going to be on it for a while because I'm on it for both immune issues and then also gut health. And for anyone who that has autoimmune conditions, we know that as we are making that transition from perimenopause to menopause, women are just genetically primed for more autoimmunity. But the changes in sex hormones directly impact our ability to have tight junctions in the small intestine. And there's so many other ramifications. Wait for the book. But it really, really do take an immune hit in perimenopause and menopause. And so, there's just a of lot of different reasons that can beneficial. But there are quite a few other peptide therapies that as I'm learning about them, I'm like, “Oh, this is a peptide you would cycle on and off. This is a peptide that has a good amount of research. There are others that are very experimental.”

[00:52:25] There was a peptide I was reading about last night that they discovered it in rabbits and now they're extrapolating that, but it's still very experimental. So again, be conservative, work with someone that is licensed, be conscientious. Generally, they're not inexpensive. You're not going to just spend $5. They can be hundreds of dollars to utilize them. In terms of the guests that you have interviewed on the podcast who are either regenerative medicine experts or peptide experts, are there peptides on the horizon that we think may work adjunctively to our utilization of hormone therapy inevitably? People will say, “Are peptides going to take the place of hormones?” No, that is not what we're saying. But I would imagine there's probably peptides that are being designed that are going to be whether they potentiate a hormone, whether they magnify the benefits. I'm curious if any of the regenerative medicine physicians or researchers are talking about that. 

Zora Benhamou: [00:53:25] That is such a good question that I never asked. So, I don't have answer for you. [laughs]

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:53:30] That's how my clinician brain goes, like potentiating the effect of hormones, like just curiosity.

Zora Benhamou: [00:53:36] Yeah, I would say there's the closest I got was the potentially the effects of peptides through a cream rather than injectables or oral. That may be next level because we know hormone creams work really well. Our skin is absorbing, well, not, some people more, some people less, but in general, our skin can absorb really well. So why can't we do these with peptides. Because who wants to inject themselves? And so, they're some creams coming out that can improve the bioavailability through skin because of a certain component in the cream. And I know that's coming around the corner. Now in terms of improving hormone, the closest thing I got were exosomes in terms of putting your hormones in the exosomes and then now that of course has to be injected in you, and that may help. 

[00:54:22] It's a possible, possible in the horizon thing. I don't know anyone who's actually doing that yet, but you can package hormones inside of an exosome and put it in theoretically.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:54:33] Yeah. It's like a different delivery system. I think when I had a dermatologist on who's also a hair expert, he was talking around some of therapies that are coming, some of which are not yet FDA approved. So, you have to talk about the research aspects and that hopefully at some point they will get FDA approval. Now in terms of hormones, obviously it's not just progesterone and estrogen and testosterone. Do you feel like there is improving accessibility of information about other types of hormones, whether it's pregnenolone, DHEA, when you're working with your patients? Because I feel like there's a lot of focus appropriately on estrogen and progesterone. I think there's growing awareness around testosterone and maybe less pushback. Of course, there's not yet an FDA-approved testosterone for women, which is criminal. 

[00:55:22] But there are other modalities that are over the counter like DHEA and then also pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is really important for memory. Do you feel like there's greater awareness? Do you feel like when you're interviewing guests, there's discussions around these other types of hormones that maybe are not, you don't necessarily need a prescription to obtain them yet? 

Zora Benhamou: [00:55:42] Definitely, the people in my world, the people I invite are on the bandwagon with that. But if you go to a normal doctor, no, they're not into it. It's usually the functional medicine doctors or holistic doctors, naturopaths even, who understand this. And unfortunately, we may talk about on the podcast, but women reach out to me and like, “My doctor won't do this for me.” So, you really do need to reach out to somebody who does understand. But it is hopefully to be like vitamin D. I mean, I remember the days I was learning about vitamin D and maybe 10 years ago I asked my doctor if I should take it and he was like, “No, we don't believe in vitamins.” I'm like, “What's a hormone?” I don't know. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:56:18] [crosstalk] -hormone.

Zora Benhamou: [00:56:20] Yeah, it's like, well, you know, and now it seems like most doctors are on the bandwagon of vitamin D and like, yes, let's check your levels and let's get it on. Like, it just takes time. So, I think with time, yes. A couple other hormones during menopause that I think some of the menopause doctors I've interviewed are really looking at are thyroid hormone and of course looking at your vitamin D levels, but they're also looking at cortisol. And some people say cortisol is the master hormone and some people say thyroid's the master hormone and depends what their jam is, but they all will affect the other hormones. So, I think that is something to definitely consider because we always like to focus one hormone. Oh, we're deficient in estrogen. Let's just put it back in. It's a symphony, right, of hormones. 

[00:57:06] So, they all will affect like a domino effect. So, you need a specialist to really guide you through this and fortunately, unfortunately we have things that we can buy online and we just say, our doctor's not giving it to us, let's just get it online and start rubbing it around and let's do something. But we don't know if is it really your hormone, your estrogen or progesterone. Maybe it's your thyroid, maybe there's some other thing going on. And that's why it's always good to get the guidance. But we're in the wild west right now. Like women are just going, I just want to feel better right now. And we do have some options that are popping up. There are problems with them and there's pros and cons with everything. But we're in this phase and maybe 10 years from now it'll all be clear and we'll all know what to do. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:57:52] Well. And it's interesting to me because I feel like having both allopathic and functional integrative training that it is a marathon. If anyone thinks it is as simple as I just take HRT and everything is better, I'm here to tell you I am humbled every time I have quarterly appointments with my functional med doc and I'm humbled every single time. There's always another layer of this onion, the proverbial middle-aged onion that we are peeling back every layer to figure out, like what we ourselves need. It's interesting. I posed a question on Instagram two days in a row, asking followers like, “What are you interested in learning more about?” I mean, doing more AMA episodes. It runs the gamut, but it really speaks the fact that people want good information, but there is no one size fits all. 

[00:58:39] I wish it were that simple. Just like when I used to prescribe antihypertensive for blood pressure problems. You could give me 20 patients. Everyone got something different. It is no different now. And unfortunately, I think that there's this prevailing philosophy that everyone needs the same things. I would argue that there are a few things that most people need. And if we're talking about hormones, most people need estrogen and progesterone. Not everyone needs testosterone. God bless the women that are still making enough. I am not one of them. I find that most women, if not all, I would say easily 90 to 95% of middle-aged women are in need of thyroid replacement and many of them are under treated. I just dropped a podcast with McCall McPherson. She's a close personal friend and we talk about this all the time. 

[00:59:27] It is so frustrating to me as a human being and a provider to hear some of the stories that women are being told. Well, you're not sick enough to justify medication. And yet I recall probably 10 years ago now I was so reticent to take medication. This makes me laugh now. I allowed myself to flounder for six months before I finally agreed to start thyroid meds. And it's like a light bulb got turned on in my brain. And so, for women out there that are suffering and don't need to be, I just find it innately frustrating. But I agree with you. There's no question that all these hormones impact one another. And to think that it's just cortisol, it's just thyroid, it's just estrogen, it's just testosterone, it is a stew, it is a symphony.

[01:00:11] Whatever analogy you need to be able to understand that they all work together. And if one is not properly supported, then it's like the domino effect. And so, my hope and my intent with this podcast is to be able to educate and inspire listeners to be their own best advocates. And that's why, guests like yourself that have these really positive messages are very supportive. They're anti-drama. We were talking about that. We don't engage in drama on social media. I just have no time for it. To round out the conversation today, why is mindset so important as we are navigating this aging journey, I'm not suggesting that the alternative to aging is acceptable to me. I want to live as long as I can, highest quality of life that I can. But why is mindset so important and so vital for women in perimenopause and menopause? 

Zora Benhamou: [01:01:04] It's such a good question too. Yeah, you have the best questions. I'm excited to talk about the work of Dr. Becca Levy. And she's a gerontologist and she's very well known for her studies across the globe looking at the research on aging and how people are, their thoughts about aging, their mindset and what she concluded after doing years and years of research is around the globe. And she found out that universally, when those who've had positive attitudes towards aging versus somebody who's negative and thinking this is not such a great deal, they lived seven and a half years longer than those who didn't and that is a very significant number. 

[01:01:50] And I don't want to undermine or just not recognize the woman who is suffering through menopause, and how can you tell me to feel positive about menopause, about aging. And this is doom and gloom. You may feel like that, and it's hard to put on a happy face when you're like that. But generally, as we age, the good thing is there's a U curve of happiness, and it's been challenged. But generally, let's say people who are older are happier. So, once we get through this and figure it out, then it's going to be easier to have these positive attitudes about aging. And if you don't, it's worth working at it. Life is so much sweeter when you have this positive attitude and you try. And I think it's one of those things that's part of the mindset and how you do it. I know it's not easy, but just do it. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [01:02:39] Yeah. And it's interesting, I think  having teenagers. My oldest will be 20, so he'll no longer be a teenager next month. And my youngest will be 18 in October. And we were on this trip, and at one point we did an activity. We were on bikes, and we were on bikes with maybe 10 other adults. And it was in a wide age range. And I kept saying to my boys, I was like, “This is how I want to be 10, 15, 20 years from now.” I mean, our guide was this Hungarian, little Hungarian guy, and he was a spitfire, and he was talking about what retirement was like and all the things he was pointing out. And he was just so active, and he was way ahead of all of us. Like, he was in such fantastic shape. 

[01:03:18] And so when I think about the aging process, the mindset around it, I think about Peter Attia talking about the marginal decade. I'm like, “I don't ever want to be that marginal decade.” Like, I want to have a high quality of life for the rest of my life, God willing. And so, I think it starts with that mindset piece. And that's something that we have some control over. We have the ability to change our mindset. It's not to suggest I'm a Pollyanna-- there are things that happen in our lives we have control over some things we don't. But always looking for the good when life is not going the way that you want it to. I always say 2024 was a bear, 2025 has been infinitely better. But with that being said, I think always looking for the good. 

[01:04:01] Always looking for opportunities to improve. Always looking for that reframe. My husband and I have this-- ever since the pandemic, we have three dogs, which makes us sound crazy. We added a third this past year. And so, we have these conversations walking the dogs. Normally we're making fun of the dogs or making fun of ourselves. And my husband and I were laughing about dog poop bag. So, for anyone who has a dog, you're a responsible pet owner, you pick up after your dog. And my mother bought different dog poop bags, which are more shallow. So, my husband, like, literally puts his hand to pick up the poop and gets poop on his hand.

[01:04:36] And we had this whole laughing episode about this, and he was like, “I don't know what I would do if I didn't laugh about it, because otherwise I would just be frustrated.” And I said that in and of itself, like, when life hands us lemons make lemonade, finding that reframe is so so important. Please let listeners know how to connect with you outside of this podcast. How to listen to your amazing podcast, find your work. As you and I were both talking about, we hadn't been introduced to one another's work until fairly recently. But I'm so glad that we did because there's so much alignment in terms of our messaging and the information that we share with our communities. 

Zora Benhamou: [01:05:10] Well, thank you so much. It's, it's been really fun. And if anybody wants to learn more, you can always go to hackmyage.com it's my website and have all my social media, everything is Hack My Age. And if you can't remember that, then if you could remember Zora the Explorer, which is my other name instead of Dora the Explorer, Zora, then l’ll pop up, I'll pop up and send me a message, reach out. I'm so humbled by everyone who reaches out to me. And here I love hearing everyone's stories. And I'm still in that phase where I can honestly help a lot of people one by one. And I will answer your messages even if it takes longer.

[01:05:47] The Instagram feed and Facebook feed seems to get bigger and bigger. So, don't give up if you need to reach out, because sometimes I don't see everything. But I'm happy to help. And thank you so much, Cynthia, for having me. It's been such a pleasure. You asked the best questions. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [01:06:01] Oh, thank you, thank you. It's been such a pleasure to connect with you. I'm so glad that we made it happen. 

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