Ep. 473 The Truth About Perimenopause with Tamsen Fadal

I am delighted and honored to connect with Tamsen Fadal today. She is a New York Times bestselling author, an Emmy Award-winning journalist, a menopause advocate, a documentary filmmaker, and a content creator. 

In our discussion, Tamsen explains why the anti-aging approach is outdated and potentially harmful, and how she advocates for a pro-aging or age-positive perspective instead. We explore the perimenopausal journey, looking at why so many women suffer in silence, feeling isolated or ashamed during the transition to menopause, and how that was entrenched by longstanding silence from both the media and medical communities. We also debunk common myths and misconceptions about this pivotal life stage, discussing the importance of advocacy and lifestyle choices.

This invaluable conversation with Tamsen Fadal is rich and empowering, so you will likely want to listen to it again and share it with all the women in your life.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU WILL LEARN:

• Why Tamsen is opposed to the anti-aging narrative and advocates for a pro-aging approach instead

• How Tamsen became comfortable with her age after getting to know herself 

• Challenging ourselves intellectually and remaining socially connected as we age 

• Tamsen shares her experience with the inadequate explanations she received from doctors about her menopausal symptoms.

• There is a need for further efforts and advocacy to raise more awareness about menopause.

• Common misconceptions about menopause.

• Misinterpreted data from a 2002 study led to fears around HRT

• Benefits of HRT and the challenges women face in accessing testosterone

• Tamsen discusses her successful menopause event that featured many experts and celebrities and prompted 65,000 people to sign up globally.

• Daily well-being practices.

Bio: 

Tamsen Fadal is an Emmy Award-winning journalist, author, documentary filmmaker, and social media’s “midlife mentor.” After more than three decades as a news anchor, Tamsen pivoted her career towards women’s advocacy, guiding her audience of 4+ million (50+ million monthly views) through midlife and beyond. She is the creator and executive producer of the PBS documentary, The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause, which has been viewed by over 1 million women across 350+ cities and 42 countries, and the author of her new book, How To Menopause: Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better than Before (Hachette 2025).

---

“I am very aware of the parts of aging that have made me whole. I feel more grounded and not so afraid or fighting to be who I was at 20 years old.”

-Tamsen Fadal

---

Connect with Cynthia Thurlow  

• Follow on Twitter

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Check out Cynthia’s website

• Submit your questions to support@cynthiathurlow.com

Connect with Tamsen Fadal

• On the How To Menopause website

• Her podcast, The Tamsen Show

• On social media: @TamsenFadal

Transcript:

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:00:02] Welcome to Everyday Wellness Podcast. I'm your host, Nurse Practitioner Cynthia Thurlow. This podcast is designed to educate, empower and inspire you to achieve your health and wellness goals. My goal and intent is to provide you with the best content and conversations from leaders in the health and wellness industry each week and impact over a million lives.

[00:00:29] Today, I had the honor of connecting with Tamsen Fadal. She's a New York Times bestselling author, Emmy award winning journalist, menopause advocate, documentary filmmaker and content creator. 

[00:00:40] Today, we spoke about why anti-aging can be harmful and outdated. Instead, she advocates for pro-aging or an age positive approach, why women are suffering in silence, the perimenopause journey, why women feel alone or ashamed during the perimenopausal to menopausal transition and how this has been contributed by to silence from the media as well as the medical community, common myths and misconceptions about this transitional period in our lives, advocacy and lifestyle. This will be a truly invaluable conversation, one that you will listen to likely more than once.

[00:01:18] Tamsen, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Welcome. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:01:21] Thank you. Thanks for having me. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:01:26] Talk to me about the term anti-aging and why in many instances this can be something that can be ageist, can provide the wrong message. I think that aging is truly a gift and I think many people in the space feel like they have to apologize for the aging process. What is your take on anti-aging versus pro-agency?

Tamsen Fadal: [00:01:45] Yeah, I think it was a word that we all used for a long time. We saw it marketed to us on every skin cream you could find out there, every commercial. “You want to stay youthful and young.” And so, I think that was ingrained into our minds. But I would say now, thankfully, we're looking at this in a different way. We're looking at this as the next season. We're looking at it as a gift. And look, it's not always easy. I'm not Pollyanna that every part of aging is great, but I am very aware of the parts that have made me whole, feel more grounded. I feel like I go in day to day, not so much afraid and not so much fighting to be who I was at 20 years old. So, I'm excited about this message. But I think we have a lot more work to do as a society, as somebody who came from the media, I think we have a lot more work to do in terms of teaching that and people really believing that message too.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:32] Yeah, it's interesting. There are definitely people I follow on social media that go out of their way to make sure that they're kind of challenging the status quo. Because I think in many instances, women are kind of conditioned to believe that we need to be thin, we have to beautiful. This kind of exterior manifestations of who we are as individuals and yet I think the older we become and we really find our voices, we find that there's so much more to ourselves than just the physicality of our bodies. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:03:00] Yeah, I think it just takes a while. I definitely know that I wasn't like this in my 20s or my 30s. I think it takes a long time to sort of figure out who you are. And then I also think it takes quite a bit to be settled with the age you're at. I lost my mom at 51, so for me, 50 was never the fear point where everyone's like, “Oh my gosh, you're going to be 50. Don't say it.” Mine was 51, but it was because I didn't have a roadmap past 51 years old. And now I look at it and I'm like, “Wow,” when I say I'm 54, I don't even think about it like 54. 

I saw one of my favorite actresses turn 60 recently, and I was like, “That's so cool.” Like, I don't even think of her as that, not because of her looks or anything else, just because she's doing so many amazing things. So, I hope that we get to a place where-- that we really do understand the gifts of it, and we do understand that there's some real beauty in knowing who you are from the inside and not just saying that and hoping that it sticks.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:03:57] Yeah. And it's interesting for me, I definitely was more stigmatized, if you will, at turning 40 for some reason. You know, I had relatively young kids, a four-year-old, a six-year-old, and 40 to me, I was like, “I can't believe I'm 40.” And then when I turned 50, I was like, “It's just a number.” And I make a point on podcasts or interviews that I do that I talk about being 53 so that people understand that you don't fall off a cliff at 50. You don't fall off a cliff at menopause, that there's so much more living to be done and age is just a number. I jokingly say, I've met some 27-year-olds who I think are little old souls. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:04:32] Yeah. [laughs] 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:04:33] And then I meet some really effervescent 62-year-olds. And I think all of us just kind of accepting ourselves and being in a position where we're happy, where we’re in time and space, instead of looking mournfully behind. I feel like when I'm speaking to patients or talking to women just in general, I feel like many women are looking backwards and saying, “Oh, I didn't appreciate X, Y, Z year enough.” I didn't appreciate-- A woman said to me recently, “I didn't appreciate in my 20s the fact I could literally eat anything.” [laughs]  

Tamsen Fadal: [00:05:01] I know, I know. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:05:03] Now things are so different. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:05:05] I get that. I look though-- My dad is 85 and a half right now, and he does not know his age. He just doesn't know it. He was telling me how he was helping one of his neighbors back to her house, and I was like, “What? You're helping her?” And he's like, “Yeah, yeah, she just needed some help back.” And I was like, “Okay.” And then he is taking a pottery class. He's taking guitar lessons. He works out three times a week. He has no idea of his age. It doesn't occur to him. He doesn't talk. He doesn't think about it. He knows it, obviously, but I really do think that's important because I do see some people get very stuck, like, “Oh, I'm 65. Oh, gosh. I mean, just. Yeah, I'm supposed to slow down a little bit.” And then I see other people who are like, “Yeah, I'm 65. Yeah, I just signed up for a marathon.” So, I think it is so much in your mind, and I think it is so much in how you handle yourself as when you're younger and moving into, as you're older, with movement, with balance, with understand what's important and accepting new things. And I think that's not always easy, but I think it's very necessary. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:06:05] Well, and if you talk to the researchers and the individuals, like the neuroscientists of the world, they talk about how important it is to continue to challenge ourselves intellectually. You mentioned your dad's doing pottery, he's physically active, he's helping his neighbors. We know how important that social connection piece is. And, I jokingly was telling my husband, I was like, “If you really look at the research, like the things that we should be doing right now, we should be playing pickleball.” 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:06:26] Yeah, I know. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:06:26] We should be doing things that wire us like learning new things. And so- 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:06:30] Yeah. Yeah. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:06:31] -my teenagers were completely embarrassed. They're like, “You guys are going to play pickleball?” And I was like, “Yes, we are. And it's good for our brains.”

Tamsen Fadal: [00:06:37] Did you start it yet? Do you love it? 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:06:39] We enjoy it. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:06:41] Oh, okay. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:06:42] It's definitely one of those things where my husband is super competitive, former college athlete, and he plays golf a lot. And so, for him-- So the Thurlow family that I married into, they are vicious game players. So, I say vicious in that they are cutthroat in a very fun kind of way, but very, very competitive. And I was saying, like, “I have to really be very focused on this ball and the paddle and making sure I'm paying attention where I am in time and space-

Tamsen Fadal: [00:07:07] That’s great.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:07:09] -but it's important. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:07:11] Yeah, I know it is. I know it is. But I think it's exciting. And I also think that gives you a lot of excitement in the relationship too, of seeing people in different positions and doing different things. I think there's something really to that. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:07:22] Why do you think in many instances, women at this stage of life truly suffer in silence, not just physically, but also emotionally and professionally? Why do you think that menopause or even the perimenopausal transition has been kept behind proverbial closed doors for such a long period of time? 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:07:41] Look, I think that women suffer in silence because that's kind of the only option that they've really had for a very long time. It wasn't just silence in community, but it was silence in the doctor's office. It's been silence in terms of what doctors have learned, it's not their fault, but that's just kind of the way the system's been set up. So that's why I believe that's gone for so long, you know, why I think that now we're finally talking about it and finally trying to shout it as loudly as we can is because we realize what's happening and some of that information has gotten out there. 

[00:08:10] And, look, I've been a journalist for 30 plus years. I had no idea that this was something we weren't talking about, even as journalists. It wasn't a story we covered it. We didn't talk about menopause research when we did a health report every night of the week. We talked about every diet under the sun. We talked about every cholesterol change. We talked about heart disease. We talked about hair loss. We didn't talk about menopause, and certainly not perimenopause. So, I think that we've done a disservice from a lot of different areas, from education, from the media standpoint, and then a societal as thinking this is a symbol that our best years are behind us. So, I think all three of those are really to blame for it. 

[00:08:44] And then we've got a medical system that has really shown that women have been put in last place when it comes to care. And I don't think that that's changing as quickly as I'd like to see it, but I'm hopeful that it will in time, and I'm hopeful that the more that we push it, that the faster it goes so we get some help for the next generations. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:09:00] Yeah, it's interesting to me because when I finished my nurse practitioner training, it was right around the time of the WHI, so the Women's Health Initiative. And I was segmented into cardiology, and that's what I did for 16 years until I left that environment nine years ago. And I remember how many of my female patients would sit in my office or would tell me in the hospital, “My doctor took me off of estrogen, I have horrible hot flashes, I have pain in my legs, I can barely move, they start getting palpitations.”

[00:09:29] And I think in a lot of different ways, even during my training and I trained at arguably one of the best medical institutions in the country, there was little to no mention. There was nothing mentioned about perimenopause. And with menopause, gosh, I mean, there was probably two or three sentences in a book that we--

Tamsen Fadal: [00:09:46] Yeah. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:09:47] It was that cursory. And because I was in my 20s, when I was doing all my training, I was like, “Oh, menopause is something my mother goes through.” And my mother didn't even talk about it. My aunts never talked about it, so there was definitely this stigmatization of women just not feeling like they have a voice. And then in many instances, and certainly experts I've interviewed on the podcast have said, “Male physicians saying this, “It is the medical patriarchy that women have had to suffer because we are not interested.” He said, “not me personally, but as a medical establishment, we were not interested enough in understanding the physiology of what was happening in a woman's body as they navigate menopause.”

[00:10:29] What's ironic/interesting, is that when I started out in cardiology, that was really the start of Viagra. And we could not keep samples in our practice because they were given out appropriately, but also, I think many of the male physicians were taking them. So, men go through andropause, but it's not nearly as dramatic a decline in hormones as it is with women. And so, my hope is that our generation, and certainly your work and the work of many of our colleagues, bringing greater awareness to the experiences women go through. 

[00:10:57] And you do such a beautiful job on social media talking about the experiences you had in perimenopause, the things that as a journalist that you were experiencing that you didn't realize were part of this perimenopausal journey. When you reflect back on that time, what were some of the symptoms that gave you the greatest concern or things that hadn't been adequately explained to you? Like this is what's happening and this is why you're having brain fog or this is why you're so tired? 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:11:24] Yeah, all of them. [Laughter] I mean, I didn't know I was in perimenopause. I was given a diagnosis of menopause. I'd never had the hallmark 12 months, no bleeding because I had endometrium polyps. And so that's always-- You know, there's bleeding randomly anytime. So, I always thought those was like a weird period, weird three-day period, even though it wasn't really a period though I had come to find out, but my big one was sleep. That's really where it all started. And I thought a lot of that was stress because I'd gone through a divorce that was marked off as reason A. 

[00:11:55] And then I started with weight gain in weird areas. No matter what I did, I was getting up earlier, earlier, earlier. Working at late news, getting up earlier to work out and try to sweat it out and that didn't work. Then eating less and nothing was helping. 

[00:12:08] And then the brain fog was the really the more debilitating. And that was also attributed to stress and that was word recall. I had a really tough time with word recall and just remembering anything. I would walk into a place to do something and I'm like, “I don't know what we're doing here, but then we'll do something else.” I always felt, I described it as being on the outside looking in a lot of those years and I really felt like that. I very much felt that way. And then I had a lot of anxiety too. And that's right, I was put on Lexapro two different times, actually. And so, there were always, like, answers, but inadequate answers, never perimenopause. 

[00:12:44] And what I think is horrible/ironic about it is the fact that for two of those years I had gone in to get my polyps removed and never during that time, even in the most-- They're working in that area and still didn't talk about that with me. So, I was like, they had every reason to have that discussion and nobody did, from the surgeon that did it to the gynecologist, to the other, none of them, so I think that's a really telltale sign. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:13:13] Yeah. And when did you and your provider initiate HRT? When did that become part of the conversation? 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:13:19] I switched providers a couple of different times. And I think that, I keep saying two years ago now is probably four years ago. It's probably about three and a half years ago is when I started on estrogen and progesterone. And then about a year a half, maybe more of testosterone was added into it, and it wasn't really consistent with the testosterone and now I've become consistent with it. But I had started with a compounded formula and that didn't seem to be doing anything. And then I went to the gel where I have to now measure it out, which completely sucks, but that's just the way it is. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:13:51] Yeah. And. And for listeners, if they don't realize this, there's currently no FDA-approved testosterone for women, yet it is such an important hormone. And I think for many, many women, whether it's compounded, whether they're using a tenth of the male dose, which is what it sounds like you're doing. For a lot of women, that can be the kind of magic addition that makes them feel like their executive function, their get off the couch, get moving. I'm feeling like they're seeing changes in body composition. And that is the one thing, like I-- Because my team and I are fielding questions that come in for the podcast or on social media, I'm sometimes stunned at how many providers still will say to women, “Oh, you don't need testosterone.” And I'm like, “Really?” 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:14:30] I'm stunned at how many are saying, “You don't need hormones.” 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:14:33] Right. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:14:35] I mean, HRT, estrogen, and progesterone. I'm stunned by all of it, actually. I feel like we've shouted it from the rooftops for the last three to four years, and I still can't believe some of the messages that I get from women that are like, “I was just denied,” even if they tried to go in to explain. Some have brought my book in to try to explain it. Somebody have left my book for the doctor. And so, it makes me sad that we make women have this double and triple fight all the time. Not only do we have to go educate ourselves, but now we have to go and explain it. 

[00:15:02] And again, it's not the doctor's fault, but at some point, that education has to become well rounded all around. And we often take responsibility for learning and understanding and then implementing.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:15:13] Absolutely. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:15:14] And I'm hopeful that the medical schools start really paying attention to what needs to be done as we continue. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:15:21] Yeah. And it's interesting because when I was putting my resources together in my book, realizing and explaining to my editor, only 4% of women right now are on hormone replacement therapy. And that's not to suggest that HRT may be the right decision answer for every single person, but it really speaks and begets the need for greater education, not just for the clinicians, but for patients as well, so that they can advocate for themselves. 

[00:15:46] My hope and my intent is that over time, whether it's telemedicine for areas of the country where there may not be an HRT savvy provider, but allowing every woman to have the ability to have that conversation and advocate for themselves. 

[00:16:02] One of the things that really stood out for me in perimenopause, and in fact, I embarrassingly admit this, when I did my first TED Talk, it was on perimenopause. I remember being so embarrassed. This is 2018. There weren't nearly as many people talking about perimenopause and menopause at that time. But I felt, even as a clinician, immense shame. And that is so much of the transitional process, whether it's shame with the end of your fertile years, whether it's the shame of the bodily changes, whether it's the shame of just not understanding why your previous lifestyle choices no longer work well, it seems like this is a universal experience for most women. Where do you think-- From your perspective as a journalist, where do you think that stems from? Is it from years of silence about the menopausal transition? Is it, again, the provider piece? Is it just societal pressures that women feel about aging in general? 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:16:56] I think it's so wrapped up in aging, it's not funny. I think that even when I first realized that I was in menopause and it was in my patient portal, I was like, “Oh my gosh,” in my mind, like my best years were behind me and it was over and I was old. That was an instant. And I did untalk myself out of that, but that was my guttural belief, that was my belief. So, whether that comes-- You know that's society, I still think that's out there and it’s going to take as long as it took to build up to take away and shed. 

[00:17:26] But I guess I also think that the silence of the medical community and the silence of the media, I think both those things really have played quite a role. I came from an industry that was very youth oriented and youth obsessed and you were lucky to keep your job and hold onto your job when there was always somebody younger, prettier, smarter, skinnier, behind you. And so that was-- And I think that a lot of women go through that, whether they're in a job in television or something else. And so, I think that menopause kind of goes into that best years are behind you. And so, who wants to talk about that? 

[00:17:58] And even up until five years ago, somebody said to me, “If you keep talking about this menopause, you're going to ruin your career.” Another woman said, “Please don't bring this up at dinner because nobody wants to talk about that.” And I thought, “Well, nobody wants to talk about it if they think it's a bad thing, if they think it's a negative thing.” So, people say like, “We got to change the word menopause.” And I don't know that we need to change the word menopause. I think we need to change what we think it means. I don't think it's the word that's the problem. I think it's the perception that's the problem. And so, I'm hopeful we're getting there bit by bit. I think that men are not afraid to approach it. 

[00:18:27] To me, approach me with that conversation at events or anywhere I go to now, which I really, really like. Young women aren't afraid to talk about it. Young women in their 30s are coming up to me discussing their hormones. And so that makes me feel like we're on the right path. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:18:40] Absolutely. It's funny, I had a female orthopedic surgeon on about two weeks ago. And she said she has five children. And she said, “One of my daughters was like, ‘I'm terrified of menopause.” And she said, what wait a minute. “Why are you worried about menopause?” She was like, “but everything I hear about it sounds terrible.” And she said, “My hope is that our generation is going to ensure that your generation knows what to expect. You won't be fearful of it because you'll know by the time you're in your mid to late 30s that this transition hormonally is happening. And there's lots of things that you can do proactively about it. You don't need to fear it.” 

[00:19:14] Just like if you can imagine if a child said, “I fear puberty.” It's kind of like reverse puberty versus puberty. I don't think children have the potential concerns about puberty. And yet I tell people all the time that “Hormones govern our lives and are super important, but the more that we understand, the more we can advocate for ourselves and we don't need to fear this process.”

Tamsen Fadal: [audio cut]

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:19:38] Yeah. And do you feel like there are still common misconceptions about perimenopause or menopause that you hear? I know when you're at book signings or you're at events, common kind of myths or urban legend that center around this. In many instances, I'm always curious about this because everyone that has a different background may have a different lens with which they view this. But common misconceptions or concerns that people have around this time frame in a woman's life. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:20:09] Oh, yeah. I mean, I said it before the best years are behind us. I think that we've slowed down, that we're not as important past our reproductive years. And then, I think, so many of the other myths go into the different symptoms or solutions which are HRT, the big fear of it causing breast cancer due to information and headlines that were really misinterpreted. 

[00:20:35] Data from a study of 2002, which I'm sure you've talked about plenty on this show, not understanding, I guess, what it is and that it's not just a decline. Not understanding that when we're treating symptoms, it's not about the immediate symptoms as much as long term of living a really healthy long life, when it comes to brain and heart and bone health. So, I think there's a lot of misconceptions around this time. But I think the biggest one right now that we have to-- the hurdle that we have to get past is that this is this time of decline, because that's not really what it is, and that it's too late to do anything about it, because that's not true. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:21:07] Yeah, it's interesting. My mom is now 79 and I was talking to a GYN who was a guest on the podcast, and he jokingly, after we were done recording, he said, “You should just put a couple patches on her.” He's like, “Transdermal estrogen is really pretty benign. And if you can refer, I'm happy to see her.” But he was making the point of saying it's really never too late to have that conversation. So, whether someone is 80, having a lot of genitourinary symptoms, which I can't fathom, or pleasant at all, if there's been a long period of time without estrogen, but helping people understand, it's not this, it has to be initiated within five years, in most instances, it's all about risk stratification, figuring out what your personal risk stratification is and then determining what options are available. 

[00:21:54] I love that Kelly Casperson always says vaginally estrogen is always a yes. If you are 80-

Tamsen Fadal: [00:21:58] No matter the age.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:21:59] -if you are 65. If you are 50, the answer is yes, because it's not systemically absorbed. And for many people, it's not a question of if, but when, that they will experience chronic urinary tract infections, a lot of painful sex, issues with libido, and something so easily accessible for many individuals that is also very cost effective. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:22:21] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that there is a lack of understanding. I mean, even we've just started talking about it, but understanding vaginal estrogen versus the patch and understanding what it can do and understanding that for essentially all women, vaginal estrogen is so helpful, especially long term, in what we're talking about. So, I hope that we--

[00:22:40] The reason I wrote the book is to just try to clarify things in a more simplistic way. I'm not a doctor and I felt like, “Wow, there was just like so many things that I didn't understand.” And every time I would learn one, I needed another and another and another. And so, I just really wrote it like Q&A, so somebody could really understand what was going on. And took thousands of questions that I had in mind on social media and in our communities and tried to put as many answers as we could into the book, because those are the questions that come up all the time. And I think that we deserve those answers. And unfortunately, right now we're in a place where we have to be the ones that understand the questions and the answers to go into our doctors or going to our care providers. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:23:24] Absolutely. Earlier this year, you had this menopause event, this incredible event with-- Attended to. How many people actually participated in terms of not just clinicians, but also people that kind of tuned in to be able to absorb the information and have an opportunity to connect with you and other experts? 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:23:41] Yeah, it was amazing. And we had over a dozen experts that were on the stage or came in virtually, then some different celebrities. We had 65,000 sign up around the world. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:23:51] Amazing  

Tamsen Fadal: [00:23:52] So, yeah, they came in and out and it was a five hour, so people were in and out, but it was incredible. Yeah, we wanted to provide something that was free for women. We wanted to make sure that we tried to cover as much as we could and really bring the book to life in a lot of different ways, so we weren't just doing what was happening inside the doctor's office, but also style and talk about a mindset and talk about nutrition and weight and movement. And so, we put it together and then it just kept growing, growing, because I was like, “We can't leave this out. We can't leave that out,” and so it became much longer than we thought. It was going to be two hours, it wound up being five.

[00:24:24] But it was called the World's Hottest Menopause Party. And I don't know, I think everyone really had a good time and it was the first of its kind. And we're now working on a second, so, I'm super excited about that. And, we did it globally so we could bring in different communities around the world. And that was really neat to see. It was really just need to bring in some of the different countries. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:24:44] Yeah. And I think it really speaks to the fact that it's not just here in the United States where women feel like they need good information. It is throughout the world. And I forget the statistic for how many women go into menopause every day globally, but it is a staggering amount of women. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:25:00] It is staggering amount. I know it's a billion that will be in menopause. It was supposed to be by the year 2025. Now they're saying 2030, but I think we're close to that number right now, whether it's perimenopause and menopause. So, it's just shocking. And I think that number is what really initially, five years ago, made me go, “What are we talking about? How's this not been a conversation?” It was just shocking to me.

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:25:22] Well, even this morning in my DMs, there was someone from Norway saying, “How do I find a provider that thinks like you that's in my country.” And I thought to myself, “This just speaks to the fact that women are anxious. In many instances, desperate for good quality information, whether it's a book, whether it's a podcast, whether it's a resource, people are looking for good information that they can utilize to advocate for themselves because ultimately that's what it comes down to, it's advocacy.” 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:25:49] There's no other way to do it at this point because we're not going to be able to train all those doctors right away. We're not going to be able to train all healthcare providers. Telehealth is working around the clock to try to see as many people as possible. But there's also just going to be areas where people don't get the information. And that's our job, is to make sure that they do in all these different pockets of the world, really. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:26:08] What are you working on right now? I know when-- Before we started recording you and I were joking about the book writing process. [Tamsen Fadal laughs] And I'm sure that your editor and-

Tamsen Fadal: No, [crosstalk] right now. [chuckles] 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:26:15] -publisher probably wondering what you're going to be working on next, but are there any current projects, new projects for you that you're working on? 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:26:23] Yeah, we've got the podcast right now, which is the Tamsen Show, which I'm interviewing a lot of you, lot of different experts, so that's been a lot of fun. So, it's basically taking the book and bringing those longer conversations. And then we're in the works talking about what we're going to do in terms of another documentary or film, so that's an exciting conversation as well, so we'll see. And then right now just promoting the book, not writing another one quite yet. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:26:45] It's interesting how that process sometimes as soon as the book is out, people are asking, what are you doing next? You're like, “I want to actually just enjoy the process.” 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:26:53] I know. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:26:55] And so if you were talking to a 35-year-old, a 40-year-old right now, perhaps a listener on the podcast, what would be the things you would suggest for them to start considering about this perimenopausal transition. Before they even get to menopause, what are the things that you think that your 35- or 40-year-old selfie would have done differently? I know how I would answer this, is that as adrenaline--I used to be a hardcore adrenaline junkie. What would you suggest perhaps doing differently? 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:27:25] Oh, I get familiar with the symptoms so they don't shock you or surprise you. I think I'd make sure that I had a OB/GYN that was comfortable talking about hormone therapy. So, the minute I decided that was for me, I would be able to have that conversation quickly. I think I would incorporate much more strength training than standing on the elliptical for hours. I think I'd pay attention to deprivation and more talking about protein and paying attention to what I'm eating. And that doesn't mean diet, but that means just paying attention to understand protein because I had no-

[00:27:57] We used to talk about fat free and low cal. We didn't talk about protein ever. I was like, the guys talked about protein as I remember, I mean it was ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And those would be the big things and I'd focus a little bit more on sleep. I think that's been something I would have focused on and paid attention to for sure. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:28:12] Yeah. It's interesting because I, as I was writing up questions for you, I was thinking what would I have done differently? And I think a lot of it, I would echo a lot of what you're saying that I would have been less focused on doing hardcore conditioning classes and spent more time lifting weights. I definitely would have restructured my meals. And I think, what allows you to be a high functioning person in many instances, it works well for you in your 20s and 30s if you're someone that is very organized and methodical and you get out of bed early and you just kind of get stuff done, and then you realize in perimenopause that pause. 

[00:28:44] I always say it's that word that really helps define how the people that are doing the best in menopause are the people that really have understood, you have to change the way you manage stress, you've got to prioritize sleep, you have to change the way you eat, that whole concept of being really-- Even if it's unknowingly restrictive-- You and I both grew up in the timeframe where fats were bastardized. And women were encouraged to be as thin as possible. And I think about, Mary Claire talks a great deal about strong over skinny. And so that concept of reaffirming to women that there are reasons why we want to maintain muscle mass and how critically important that is. 

[00:29:24] And so as we wrap up our conversation today talking about the things that you would have done differently, what are things that you do in your day-to-day life that you feel like are non-negotiables at this stage of life, Things that are absolutely critical for you to do to support your health? 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:29:37] Yeah, I mean sleep is a big one. Stress management is another one. I think that I do really focus on movement all the time I’m outside in the morning, first thing in the morning and get that like-- I don't know, it just gets my day started right. And if I don't do it, I feel it now. I lift weights three to four times a week, so that's something that I didn't do before. And I am also paying attention to like what works and doesn't work for me. Play around if it doesn't, I mean hormones are not a one and done. And so, I do pay attention to how I'm feeling with that to make sure that I'm leveling those right, and I think that's it. I try not to give myself such an overwhelming list that I feel unwell by the end of it.

[Laughter]

Tamsen Fadal: [00:30:15] But, I try to pay attention to everything that I'm doing so that I feel good going forward. And I really appreciate and love what my dad does and how he lives. I think it's pretty cool. And if I can get to there, that would be pretty amazing. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:30:30] Absolutely. Well, such a pleasure to connect with you. I'm so glad we were able to make this conversation come to fruition. Please let listeners know how to connect with you if they are not already following you? How to get access to your amazing book? Or listen to your podcast?

Tamsen Fadal: [00:30:46] Thank you. howtomenopause.com is the book and the podcast is the Tamsen Show. And anywhere on social media, Tamsen Fadal. So hard name but pretty simple. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:30:53] Oh no. Thank you so much for your time today. 

Tamsen Fadal: [00:30:55] Thank you. I really appreciate it. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:30:59] If you love this podcast episode, please leave a rating and review. Subscribe and tell a friend. 

Tune in