BONUS This Natural Compound Cuts Calories by 18% – The Most Promising Alternative to GLP-1 Drugs with Sarah Kennedy (Calocurb)

Today, we have the next episode in our series of sponsored podcasts with highly vetted companies. 

I am delighted to connect with Sarah Kennedy, the founder and CEO of Calocurb, a revolutionary product for weight management that became commercialized after 15 years and $30 million of research from the New Zealand government. Calocurb currently sells in five international markets and continues to grow rapidly through channels and geographies. 

Sarah is a veterinarian by training and has held several senior executive positions in the agribusiness and food industries.

In our conversation today, we explore the science behind Calocurb, the evolutionary mechanisms of satiety, and how Calocurb reduces caloric intake by 18%. We discuss endogenous GLP-1 drugs, highlighting how Calocurb’s mechanism of action differs, and examining current research on gender differences in GLP-1 secretion, including their impact on the menstrual cycle and intermittent fasting. Sarah also covers the four core tenets of Calocurb, shares upcoming research that excites her, and explains the key differences between Calocurb and other supplements, like berberine and chromium.

This conversation is truly invaluable, so it's worth revisiting. I am excited about Calocurb’s potential to support a variety of needs, helping those looking to improve their hunger and satiety mechanisms, and assisting those taking GLP-1 medications who want to reduce their dosage and transition off GLP-1 medications without compromising the long-term results.

You can use the code CYNTHIA10 for 10% off an order on calocurb.com or by using this link.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU WILL LEARN:

• How Calocurb began

• How Calocurb supports those on GLP-1s looking to lower their doses or taper off (in conjunction with their healthcare team)

• Sarah explains why Calocurb is very safe, and its four to six-hour mode of action. 

• The three primary use cases for Calocurb, and how it helps to reduce the side effects and costs associated with GLP-1 injections

• The importance of making lifestyle changes when transitioning off GLP-1 medications

• How Calocurb stimulates natural GLP-1 receptors, making it easier to manage food cravings during intermittent fasting

• Sarah shares how Calocurb helped her manage her love-hate relationship with food.

• How to take Calocurb for optimal effectiveness

• Sarah outlines Calocurb’s four core values. 

• How Calocurb differs from other supplements

• Foods that help to reinforce the satiety mechanism

Bio: 

Sarah Kennedy is the Founder and CEO of Calocurb Ltd. Calocurb, a revolutionary weight management product, was commercialized after 15 years and $30 million of New Zealand Government-backed science. The company currently operates in five international markets and continues to expand rapidly through various channels and geographies.

Sarah was formerly with Fonterra, holding roles including Vice President of International Farming, based in China, Managing Director of Dairy Nutrition, and Managing Director of RD1-Fonterra’s chain of rural retail stores.

Prior to joining Fonterra in 2011, she had more than 20 years’ experience in dietary and animal nutrition, including ten years as Managing Director of Healtheries/Vitaco NZ Ltd. During her time at Healtheries, she trebled the company's revenue and then oversaw the merger of Healtheries and Nutralife to form Vitaco, the third largest health and wellbeing company in the Australasian market.

She is originally a veterinarian by training and has held several senior executive positions in agribusiness and the food industry.

In 2009/2010, Sarah completed a Sloan Fellowship Program in Global Leadership and Innovation at Massachusetts Institute of Technology and has held a number of board positions with Government, private, philanthropic, and listed NZ companies.

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"Calocurb allows you to make better choices or not eat as much. It just takes that food noise away."

– Sarah Kennedy

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Connect with Cynthia Thurlow  

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• Submit your questions to ⁠support@cynthiathurlow.com⁠

Connect with Sarah Kennedy

• Calocurb 

Transcript:

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:00:02] Welcome to Everyday Wellness Podcast. I'm your host, nurse practitioner, Cynthia Thurlow. This podcast is designed to educate, empower and inspire you to achieve your health and wellness goals. My goal and intent is to provide you with the best content and conversations from leaders in the health and wellness industry each week and impact over a million lives. 

[00:00:29] Today, I had the honor of connecting with Sarah Kennedy. She's the founder and CEO of Calocurb, a revolutionary weight management product that was commercialized after 15 years and $30 million of research from the New Zealand government. The company currently sells in five international markets and continues to grow rapidly through channels and geographies. 

[00:00:49] Sarah was originally a veterinarian by training, and has had a number of other senior executive positions in agrobusiness and food industries. And today, we started the conversation talking about the science behind Calocurb. The impact of evolutionary mechanisms for satiety and how Calocurb reduces caloric intake by 18%. Information surrounding endogenous GLP-1 drugs, how Calocurb works differently and what the mechanism of action is. Current research specifically for gender differences on GLP-1 secretion and the impact of gender differences on a woman's menstrual cycle, as well as intermittent fasting. Four tenants of Calocurb, and upcoming research that she's excited about, and key differentiators between Calocurb and other items like berberine, chromium and other supplements. 

[00:01:46] This is a truly invaluable conversation, one you will likely want to listen to more than once. What I find really exciting is I think this supplement can be very helpful in several different modalities for those that are just looking to have some improvement, and hunger and satiety mechanisms, those that are concurrently taking GLP-1 medications and want to be on lower doses and/or those who want to titrate off of GLP-1 medications and do so in a way where they are less likely to sabotage their long term effects. I think this can be used concurrently with other modalities and in conjunction with your licensed medical provider if you are taking a GLP-1. 

[00:02:30] Well, Sarah, I've been so looking forward to this conversation on so many different levels. Welcome to Everyday Wellness. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:02:37] Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:38] We were chatting before we started recording about the rise of GLP-1 drugs, and how they have really impacted profoundly metabolic health and utilization of these drugs for innumerable amount of disorders, post-myocardial infarction with patients that have heart disease. We're seeing it used for autoimmune conditions. 

[00:03:00] Your company started doing research way before this rise in the GLP-1s that we're seeing. Talk to me about how you had-- There was over 15 years of research that led to the development of Calocurb. I think this is really exciting. I think, listeners, for people that have been curious about how to augment hunger and satiety mechanisms in the body and be able to do it naturally, this will be a really interesting conversation. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:03:27] Great. You know how it started was all primary research in New Zealand is done by the New Zealand government. So, around 15 years ago-- Well, no, was 15 years ago, in 2010, a group of very talented scientists had the hypothesis that they would find a natural plant-based extract that suppressed appetite. 

[00:03:50] Now, why did they have that hypothesis? A couple of reasons or a number of reasons. But historically, in times of famine, Scottish people in the Highlands chewed very, very bitter berries, these heathberries, to suppress appetite. And in fact, history or rumor would have it, is that Charles II actually gave it to his mistresses to lose weight. One would wonder if Charles II shouldn't do it himself. And then, also in the Kalahari Desert, the tribesmen would chew very, very bitter cactus before they went out hunting, long periods of hunting, to suppress appetite. 

[00:04:28] And then, there'd been some recent work in rats using lavaging with bitter substances. They put a grant into the government, it was called Foods for Appetite Control, and they got $20 million back to explore this hypothesis. 

[00:04:46] Now, why would the New Zealand government do this? We have exactly the same obesity problem as everyone does around the world. So, everyone sees us as this rugby loving hobbit, but we have exactly the same obesity problem and there really wasn't anything very effective on the market. 

[00:05:07] So, they did some incredible work. I'll just sum it down. They took 300 biopsies from the human gastrointestinal tract. That was from endoscopy and from colonoscopies. So, they tracked it right down from the stomach down to the colon, and they actually proved that we have not only bitter taste receptors on our tongue, but we have them all the way down our gastrointestinal tract. When these bitter taste receptors are stimulated at different levels, so in your stomach when stimulated, they release ghrelin. So, ghrelin being the hunger hormone. But below the stomach, when stimulated they produce CCK, cholecystokinin GLP-1 and PYY, the three appetite suppressing hormones. 

[00:06:00] So, why did they do this, or the why it happens is it's evolutionary. If something is very bitter, it's thought to be toxic. So, if you have it on your tongue, you'll spit it out. If it goes to your stomach, you'll either feel nauseated and vomited up or you will produce ghrelin, so you'll want to eat more to dissipate it. But if it goes below the stomach, there's nothing else you can do. So, it stimulates the release of these three appetite suppressing hormones to tell your brain you're full and to stop eating. So, it was this evolutionary mechanism of humans and plants. 

[00:06:45] Plants are very smart as well. Because if you think about a plant, let's think of an apple tree, the apple is very, very sweet. It encourages us to eat it, because it wants to spread its seeds. But its leaves are very, very bitter, because it doesn't want us to eat its leaves. So, humans and animals evolved like this. So, this is a mechanism, an evolutionary mechanism. They proved this in vitro through these [unintelligible 00:07:14]. They then said, “Okay, how can we stimulate them, or what substances will stimulate them?” 

[00:07:23] So, they built a high throughput entero-endothelial model and they tested over 1,000 different extracts or plant-based extracts, some pharmacological substances as well, to say what would stimulate them. Only two did. One was a potato oxalate, which would be great, but it's poisonous, so you'd be dead. And the second one was a hop extract. So, yes, hops are used to flavor beer and it was a hop extract. 

[00:07:55] And because this government organization called Plant & Food has bred all of the hops in New Zealand, they then tested another 50 to 60 hops to see which was the most effective. They came up with one hop that they called Amarasate, which was Eureka. When I say Amarasate, never let a scientist name an extract. [Cynthia laughs] No one can pronounce it. Absolutely no one. They love it, but no one. Amara means bitter and sate means satiation. So, here you had it. They did a number of other works putting it into a capsule that dispersed in the upper duodenum or the upper gut. They did that. A lot of things. 

[00:08:42] And then, they took it into their first human clinical trial. Now, this was a big trial. When I say a big trial, it was done between the university and the research institute. And because we were cannulating or taking bloods and measuring bloods, I think every five minutes. It was a big trial. So, they showed now in this human clinical trial, if Calocurb was given an hour before and eat your full lunch and eat your full snack, we increased CCK GLP-1 by 600% and PYY by 400%. 

[00:09:26] Now, why that's so important is you will see a lot of things saying, we activate GLP-1, we do this. Unless you're above 400%, you will make no behavioral change whatsoever. This is clinically shown as well. So, we have seen nothing in the world, because obviously we monitor it all the time that does it. I won't name the one now, but it says we activate GLP-1, it does it by 65%. You can eat a piece of bread and it will be higher than that. So, you have to be above 400% to make any behavioral change. So, they measured this, and they measured it as it happened over a four-hour period. We also got an 18% reduction in calorie intake. 

[00:10:18] So, to give you a comparison, a semaglutide, which is your Wegovy, that will give you on average per day a 24% reduction in calorie. We got 18%, which is not surprising, because when you inject yourself, you probably inject into 3000% or 4,000% and then you come down over the week. When you take Calocurb an hour before a meal, you're increasing 600% or twice what you do postprandially. So, this all happened. 

[00:10:53] And then, in 2017, like they do, they go, “Wow, we might have something here. How do we commercialize it?” So, they approached me and said, “Hey, what should we do with this?” That was from my background. And I said, it was a bit like the man that liked the company and he bought it. I loved it. I had never seen that amount of science in this larger category, in this important category, that we could own from source to shelf. So, I said, “I want it.” It wasn't quite as easy as that, but it was just to summarize it. So, I raised the money, and formed the team and founded the company in 2018. And then, from that time, we've done three more human clinical studies. So, that's why we say 15 years and $30 million out in research. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:11:51] It's really incredible, because as I'm sitting here listening to you, I'm thinking 25 years of working in clinical medicine, and what are the things that my patients have consistently struggled with? Yo-yo dieting. That is a consistent problem. It's not a lack of motivation. It's not of a lack of desire to change. It is truly that they don't feel like they have the ability to control hunger. 

[00:12:18] Whether that's emotional or physical or a combination of both, this is where I think this science is so exciting, because there are many people that maybe may not meet the clinical indications to have a traditional endogenous GLP-1 prescribed for them, but still need some degree of satiety buffering to be able to get through their day without thinking about snacking, without thinking about the pantry at 9 o’clock at night. 

[00:12:43] And certainly, as we're aging, we know as women perimenopause and menopause, the body composition changes that are occurring. How in many instances women aren't eating enough protein, they overeat carbohydrates. You mentioned, in New Zealand, you have a lot of the same metabolic health issues that we have here in the United States. And for me, I find this incredibly exciting, because this is accessible for everyone. 

[00:13:07] And in many instances, some of the endogenous-- When I talk about endogenous for listeners, endogenous means synthetic GLP-1 agonists that are being utilized successfully in many, many patients, but may not be a long-term solution in many instances. 

[00:13:22] Now, one of the things that I think is important, is that when our bodies make GLP-1, it lasts seconds and minutes. It's short acting versus these endogenous drugs like Tirzepatide, Ozempic, etc. They're designed to act like a natural GLP-1, but they last up to a week, which is why they're only dosed once weekly. 

[00:13:42] Can you speak to how the Calocurb is being utilized for individuals that may already be on a GLP-1, and are either looking to be on a lower dose, or perhaps are titrating off in conjunction with their healthcare team? You and I are both in agreement that if you're taking these powerful medications, it needs to be in conjunction with a licensed medical provider, not bought off the internet. Gosh, I saw a program the other day where people didn't get access to the medications through their prescriber. They were just going online, and filling out a couple forms and getting these medications shipped to their home. And they're like, “I'm not even sure it's the real thing.” 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:14:23] Oh, dear. Well, these are powerful drugs. These are powerful synthetic hormones. So, always be careful on that. I'm just going to start with your first point. You're right. We stimulate your natural GLP-1. We do two other hormones as well. You're absolutely correct, they last for two minutes in the body. So, it's like, okay, how do you have this four-to-six-hour mode of action? How does it last for that if they only lasts two minutes? Well, it's fascinating, because I try and describe to people how it goes down. It's a bit like a pinball machine. It goes down, and it's this highly insoluble bitter extract that goes down. It's like a pinball machine that goes down through your intestine and hits these bitter taste receptors. So, it literally is going down. 

[00:15:11] Think of a pinball machine going down like that, and hitting it and that's how we get this four-to-six-hour mode of action. The interesting thing with that, as I said, it is highly insoluble. So, it is totally targeted on the gut or the lower gastrointestinal tract. So, in that, it's incredibly safe in the fact that less than 1% is absorbed in the bloodstream. So, it's not going to affect the liver, it's not going to affect the kidney, it's not going to affect any other drugs you're taking, because it is solely targeted on that lower gastrointestinal tractor. So, that's the first thing about how it works. 

[00:15:48] The second thing, I just want to reassure your listeners when they go, “I can't control this hunger. I can't control this.” What most people don't realize is our appetite center is in our hind brain. It is a very primitive function of us. And if you drop your calories by 25% per day, your hunger will double over four months. And that was the mechanism to get us out of our caves. This is this whole thing. Otherwise, we'd be lying in our caves, going, “Hey, you know what? It's raining.” So, this hunger drove us to hunt. So, this whole thing--

[00:16:30] And so, when your appetite is controlled by your hindbrain, there's your little hindbrain there and then you've got your forebrain here, this is our frontal cortex. You put stress, alcohol, lack of sleep, hormones, which you just talked about is a huge one, little front brain goes, “Woof, like that” and the hindbrain goes, “Come on, let's go.” 

[00:16:55] I would always say to people, think how many times you've eaten hot chips late at night after having a few glasses of wine or after having alcohol. He was like, “Yeah, I really want those hot chips.” That's that hind brain going, “Come on, let's have some fun.” So, understand, we have a primitive brain. It was an asset to us through evolution, but now it's a liability because we are surrounded by foods, and we are surrounded by foods that tempt us. The smell, the highly processed, the look of them, the sugar, all of these things where you are going, “Oh, I need this,” because it could be a famine tomorrow. 

[00:17:41] So, for everyone that goes, “Oh, cut down a diet and it's too hard and I want a snack,” just understand that is that hind brain talking to you. It's usually driven by tiredness, hormones, stress, a whole lot of things. So, that's just that. So, how do you use Calocurb? Look, I talk about it in three ways. I talk about it as an alternative. So, for those that can't take the side effects cost and don't want to inject themselves or just want to lose 5 to 10 pounds, this is a great tool. It is a tool in the toolkit. I say to people, “If you go from 10 donuts to 8 donuts, you're probably not going to do much good.” So, this is a tool in the toolkit. So, that's the first use. 

[00:18:33] The second use that a lot of practitioners are using it for is they're actually using it in combination with the injections. The reason being is they can lower the injectable down to the lowest amount or your starting dose and give Calocurb. So, you're getting natural GLP-1, as well as synthetic GLP-1. But you've lowered the synthetic GLP-1 to the starting dose. So, you're reducing side effects and reducing cost. So, where a vial might have lasted you a month, it will last two months. So, that's one of them. 

[00:19:06] But the third way, which I say is not enough, it's a must, is when you are titrating off an injectable. What most people don't realize, is that when you're on an injectable, you have suppressed your natural GLP-1. Because remember, GLP-1 is a natural process to tell your brain to stop eating at some point. It just tells us a bit late. It tells us like 45 to 50 minutes later. You have suppressed that natural GLP-1 to almost zero. 

[00:19:40] So, when you come off, your GLP-1 doesn't suddenly wake up and go, “Oh, I'm going back to work again.” It has to start working. So, this is why you get this incredible hunger. We think it contributes to this rebound eating, particularly in the fact that during the injections, if you haven't altered your dietary patterns, if you've just reduced, you're just going to go straight back to increasing again in your dietary patterns. So, three things there. It can be used in a combination of ways, and it is a tool in the toolkit. 

[00:20:17] Always look for assistance around that from a practitioner to how, what diet you should be having around that. And to your point, perimenopause and menopause, most women don't realize, well, your estrogen has dropped. I mean, you know, far more than me. Women need to eat 200 calories less a day just to stay the same size. Hey, it doesn't seem fair, does it? [laughs] 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:20:42] No.

Sarah Kennedy: [00:20:43] It goes through all of this and then we have to do this. But here is a tool for you just to reduce one of your meals or a couple of your meals. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:20:53] Yeah, I think that on so many different levels and for one of many reasons why I wanted to bring you on as a guest, I think this is really exciting. I think that there is a tremendous amount of fear for people that are taking GLP-1s. I've had patients tell me, “I'm terrified to come off, because this is the first time in my adult life that I feel like I have control over my food and I'm not having cravings.” You know, that food noise is a real issue for many, many people. 

[00:21:18] The other piece of it is, for those that are on the medications and have a desire to come off of them, you're astutely correct that if you're not doing the lifestyle mediated changes in conjunction with that, you are very likely going to end up either yo-yo dieting, coming back and then having a binge episode, which is what some patients have described to me, or if you have not been concurrently consuming enough protein and doing strength training, you could very well have lost muscle mass, which impacts insulin sensitivity, especially in middle-aged women. And that can be catastrophic. So, I love that there are-- 

[00:21:57] I look at it as like little guard rails or training wheels. When you were learning how to ride a bike and your parents put training wheels on the bike, so you stayed upright, the way I look at this is it can be utilized in conjunction with each one of these instances to help people feel like they have control over food as opposed to food having control over them. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:22:15] And remember, it is a primitive brain. Do not blame yourself. As I say to people, when they get these hunger signals, you would have survived. That's why you're here today, because your primitive brain is working. It's just become a liability. The other thing is I said to you, we've done three more clinical trials, and why I love that intermittent fasting behind you. The next one we did was in hunger and craving. So, we did one in men. They were fasted for 24 hours. We gave Calocurb at 16 hours and 20 hours and then measured fullness and hunger. In males, we reduced hunger or reduced increased hunger by 80% in males. So, at 24 hours, the ones that were treated were 80% less hungry than the ones that weren't treated. So, that was great. But then, we went on. 

[00:23:11] I was a bit grumpy at the time. [Cynthia laughs] We had to do this next clinical trial, because I couldn't get my registration in Australia. Australia's very tough. It's like Canada. They're like, “Yeah, but you've shown it in men, but you don't know it's in woman.” We're like, “Well, you know, it's biologically--” And they're like, “No. No” So, I had to repeat the clinical trial in women. And so, once again, a 24 hour fast and given Calocurb at 16 hours and 20 hours-- 

[00:23:39] Now, with women, this is why clinical trials are not done or less than 30% are done on women, because we have hormones. So, we had to get women and we had to get them in the same time of their menstrual cycle each month. So, imagine 30 women, we had a placebo, high dose, low dose. So, we had to repeat it over three times. We had to get the same time of their menstrual cycle each month and the same day of the week during COVID. [laughs] 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:24:09] Sounds complicated. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:24:12] So, while the men took about two months, the woman took over 18 months and cost quarter of a million dollars. But after being grumpy, the results were just stunning with women. Women are more sensitive to GLP-1, and there are a number of reasons or hypothesis put forward for that. But one of is our sensitivity is about the protection of a uterus. Oh, sorry, protection of a fetus. 

[00:24:39] And so, we got 100% decrease in increased hunger in women. We got 120% decrease in craving. Now, why that's important. I'll go on to. And then, we got a 14.5% decrease in calorie intake, because we gave an Ad Libitum or an ETFIL meal at the end. Now, remember, that was four hours after the last dose. So, just showing that length again. Why I'm saying that's important. During the menstrual cycle in the luteal phase, or what people call PMS, women will on average eat 200 calories less more a day and they can eat up to 600 calories a day more. 

[00:25:24] Once again, it's your body saying, “Hey, you might be implanting an egg. We got to have these nutrients. We're putting this lining in our uterus for you in case you implant this egg.” So, it's your body working for you. But of course, this is every month. So, these cravings people get what they call in PMS, I just want to eat chocolate, I just want to eat this. Hey, here is something that can help you. And because you can come in and out of it, it's not like you have to be on it forever. So, there's other uses of it. So, from being grumpy, I was absolutely thrilled and still are thrilled with that clinical trial. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:26:05] Well, it's so interesting, because I think many younger generations don't realize that for many years here in the United States, and I'm sure it could be also applicable to other Westernized countries, women were just left out of research entirely, because probably very patriarchal decision, but very likely made because researchers did not want to account for menstruating women where they were in their cycles, what month, what day were they in their cycles, which phase, follicular, ovulatory or luteal phases. And so, I'm so glad that you included younger women in that. [Sarah laughs] It's not at all surprising about the luteal phase. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:26:42] I know. I know. But as I said, it was like, “Oh, really?” And now, I'm delighted. And you're right. We are treated like little men. We've got different metabolic rates. We've got a whole lot of things. So, yes. This was really coming out. But why I'm saying that as well--

[00:27:02] Intermittent fasting. So, we tell people or we guide people to take it an hour to an hour and a half before a main meal. We do lunch and dinner. We do this, because just making it easy for people. But as we talked about, I intermittent fast, because I'm lazy. And so, I take my Calocurb at about 9 o’clock in the morning or 8 o’clock in the morning, and it just sees me right the way through till after lunch. 

[00:27:32] Intermittent fasting is amazing. I love it. But I can walk past those muffins at morning tea. I can walk past those bagels. I can walk past all of those things and go, “I'm okay.” Otherwise, I'll be going, “Oh, God, I'll just have half or one or I'll just do this.” So, for all parts of hunger and craving, yeah, it's really good usage. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:27:54] Well, it's interesting. I do quite a bit of business travel, and what I found it to be very helpful for, and I talk about this a lot, that generally when I'm in an airport, there's very little that's healthy to eat, and so I typically will fast. And to me, when I took the Calocurb while I was traveling, it was like, “Oh, then I felt--" I wasn't focused on the fact that I was maybe my stomach was growling, maybe I felt a little bit hungry, but I didn't want to eat, and so it allowed me to get to my destination, make better food choices. 

[00:28:21] And the other piece of that, I jokingly say the only thing that's left in my arsenal of food vices, I like dark chocolate. My son just recently had a birthday, and I made this amazing homemade chocolate cake with strawberries and all these other things. I had a small portion and put it away. Now, that is the type of thing that in most other instances I would have been thinking about that cake and I would have been thinking about maybe I needed a bigger piece and acknowledging that sometimes gluten-free baked goods are no different than the regular variety. 

[00:28:52] But the point that I'm making is for me, the food noise piece was completely shut off. It allowed me, when I was traveling to be able to fast a little bit longer to get to a point to get to my destination where I could make a much better food choice than piecing together some nonsense in the airport that was healthy. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:29:09] Oh, you were just talking my language. [Cynthia chuckles] I mean, I was in the US. Well, I've done six trips this year to the US and I did 12 last year. So, imagine how many times I'm on a plane- 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:29:21] A lot. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:29:21] -and in airports and across America. So, I just use them all the time. It's very hard to make healthy food choices and also make those-- When you do eat a meal, like you said, with some piece of cake, you can eat a smaller amount. 

[00:29:36] Now, I'm not trying to be the fun police, but it is-- It's not the fun police, but it just allows you to make better choices or to not eat as much. It's just taking that noise away. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:29:48] Yeah. It's interesting, because for me patients have always described food noise, and it isn't until you experienced having zero food noise. So, I was experimenting, giving it to my husband. My husband likes chips. He's a chip person. He likes salty or savory things. He was laughing, he was saying, “I didn't even want my gin and tonic on Friday night with my chips,” because that becomes his thing that-- It's the one night out of the week that he'll have a bit of alcohol. And he said, “I didn't even have a desire to drink alcohol.” And so, not that he's a heavy drinker or anything like that. 

[00:30:19] So, it was interesting for me to do this little experiment of N-of-2 in my home and see how we were impacted by taking the Calocurb strategically, like, where are the places in my lifestyle where I find that I'm more likely to eat foods that don't love me or won't make me feel good after the fact? And that I think is very enlightening, because I think that there's different applicability’s depending on the individual and that's why, again, I think that this conversation is so exciting, because this is accessible to everyone. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:30:52] Yeah. As I said to you earlier, I think they're incredible in the fact that they have really shown the mechanism or the etiology of weight. It is about a feedback mechanism. It is hormonal. It's not all about willpower. So, I think that is amazing. But you do not need to have high GLP-1 for seven days a week, 24 hours a day. You need to come in and out of it. You really need it to be high before you're going to eat to help with that eating. You don't need it to be high when you're asleep. 

[00:31:30] Just going back to your point with that is a lot of people-- We get hundreds of people coming back to us, but a lot of people after dinner snacking. So, take it an hour before dinner. You always want to take Calocurb on an empty stomach with a glass of water. The reason being is that you want it to go down to the upper intestinal tract, so below the stomach. So, take it then. Just like your husband, it's like I haven't gone for the cookie, I haven't gone for the chips, I haven't gone for the ice cream. So, it's really been of assistance with that. 

[00:32:06] I think a personal story, why did I start it or why did I found this company? I have had a love-hate relationship my whole life with food. I've been on a diet since I was 10-years-old. I love food, but I hated it. I ate it and then I hated myself in a constant-- I don't think I was ever yo-yo dieting. It was always just this love hate, and just as constant control, control, control, control, breakout and control, control, control. I remember when I first took it, and I took some of the early capsules, the trial capsules-- 

[00:32:45] I was out at dinner with a group of friends. We had a beautiful slow-cooked roast, of course, because it's New Zealand, slow cooked roast lamb in the middle. We'd all had some and we finished. Normally, I pick like the crunchy bits on the side. Although I'd finished eating, I might pick. I just sat there and said, “Oh, I'm full.” And so, it was just so going from this love-hate relationship, I'm now at peace. I can eat, but I don't eat too much. So, I'm not in this constant, you can, you can't, you can, you can't. Oh, God, I'm going to throw it out the window and do everything and eat everything. So, yeah, it's been revolutionary for me. So, I just hope--

[00:33:32] That's why I found it. I want other people, and particularly women to have that, because women I love, we tend to organize ourselves. Like as you said with your husband, I say give man a pill, men not hungry, [Cynthia laughs] men don’t eat. With women, we go, “Oh my God, okay, well if I don't have something here, I'll be there later on. Will I be able to get something? And if I don't get something there, I won't have this.” So, not only noise, it's this constant organizational control in your brain. So, to have that go away is just relaxing, is revolutionary for me. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:34:12] Yeah. I think finding that reframed relationship with yourself, I mean ultimately without getting too like esoteric. But I think for so many of us, our first relationships with food were probably viewed through our relationships with our family members. And then, the toxic diet culture which I talk about so often on the podcast that women have grown up hating their bodies and hating their relationship with food for so many years. That to me, if someone is able to reframe their relationship with themselves in the process through utilizing something like Calocurb, I think that's very exciting. 

[00:34:49] Because I'm certainly of a generation where thin was in. I mean, that was the thought process, thinner is better. And now, we're trying to speak to women about the value of being strong, and being capable and having some degree of ability to feel like you're satiated and physically full, I think is a very exciting development. Where are things going? Are you doing new research right now? What are you excited about within your organization? What's new? 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:35:18] Oh, I'm really excited at the moment. We are science led, so we have four values in our company. The first one is science led, customer success, a passion with integrity and simplicity. So, try and keep things. That's why we only focus on Calocurb. We don't have other products. 

[00:35:38] Other people are really good at protein, they're really good at things like that. We are just Calocurb and 15 years, $30 million. We've just finished our fourth human clinical. That's the largest. That was 150 patients, men and women, a BMI between 25 and 35 over six months with a three month follow up. So, that's a huge trial, and that's just finished. We measured a number of biomarkers, but weight was one, body composition with DEXA with the other bloods, movement, a whole raft of things that cost us $2 million. 

[00:36:17] That trial is being analyzed now and it will be unblinded. So, I say we. I have nothing to do with it. I really want to get my little sticky paws on it, but I can't. It's been unblinded now and I'll get the results in late October, early November. So, really excited about that. And that will be a big piece of work that we can really, really work through. 

[00:36:47] We're just preparing some work in adolescents, because I get asked so often about adolescence. When we talk about hormones with adolescents and things like that, I'd really be able to help adolescents without the stigma of perhaps using an injectable. We're doing work on adolescents, we're doing work on-- Oh gosh, there's about four other projects. We're doing just some more lab-based work, because we know we produce GLP-2 as well, stimulate that which is a gut protectant. So, we've got about four underway at the moment. One's just completed, and about another four for next year for 2026. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:37:32] That's really exciting, because I think as a mother of teenagers, certainly the things that I hear from patients, clients, just in my community about concerns over body composition changes in our youth, I think it's certainly really exciting. I know that there's been quite a bit of pushback here in the United States about, not so much about utilizing GLP-1s in adults, but clinical indicators for utilizing them in younger patients and how that should not be the first step. And so, the conversation around something like Calocurb for individuals who need some help with augmenting dietary choices and portions is really exciting. 

[00:38:12] Now, I'm curious, because inevitably someone will ask me this question, talk to me about how this product is different from things like berberine. Berberine is very popular. People like to use it for insulin sensitivity, and for upregulation of AMPK and other things. Have there been any discussions about-- I don't know how research is organized in New Zealand, so forgive me for asking this question. But utilizing this product against berberine, chromium, some of these other supplements that maybe I haven't seen tremendous success with in terms of augmenting hunger and satiety, but oftentimes are utilized to help with improving insulin sensitivity and other mechanisms. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:38:55] Yeah, I think that they are and they do work in blood glucose. You look at some of the work and you look at the studies, but they don't do anything with hunger. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:39:04] Yeah. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:39:06] The blood glucose, will that do something for hunger? Not really. We're probably more stimulated. As I said, we tested over 1,000 different extracts. What we are doing is stimulating these little receptors and to release these really important. So, berberine does not release GLP-1. It won't do anything for that. Berberine, all of those, nothing wrong with them, great. I've read all of their studies, but we worked solely on the gastrointestinal tract by stimulating these little receptors. 

[00:39:39] You might get asked as well, and I often get asked as, so what happens when I come off Calocurb? Will it be like the injectables? Well, this is this fourth clinical study we've just done. Our scientists believe that we actually exercise these little receptors. So, we're improving. So, think of them like little receptors like this. I feel a bit sorry for them. I'm constantly giving them a workout. So, we improve that gut brain access, which is why we're measuring all the way through the GLP-1. So, we're measuring it. 

[00:40:13] So, for people that have got, what we'd say, a broken gut brain axis or not so good for years of processed foods or whatever, Calocurb can help with that. But that is the one that we're exercising. So, to go back to your point, totally different. That is what we do. We do drop blood glucose and we'll have the longer-term studies when this clinical is unblinded, but we do drop both insulin and blood glucose. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:40:43] No. Thank you for that. I know that they definitely work differently, but I thought inevitably someone will ask, [Sarah chuckles] how does this work in relationship to these other types of supplements? I think it's really exciting to understand that this is essentially giving our endogenous GLP-1 receptors a little bit of a stress test. We're fine tuning. With my cardiology background, I'm going to think about it as a stress test. It's like, we're putting them on the treadmill, we're working them out a little bit, we're making them much more stronger and resilient. 

[00:41:16] I would love to wrap up the conversation today talking about what are some of your favorite tips. When you're traveling and certainly, you're doing very long-haul flights, what are the types of foods that you are finding help reinforce that satiety mechanism? I would imagine whether it's protein, or fiber or other types of things. What do you feel like are the strategies you personally use that help you remain as healthy as possible? 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:41:42] You know, you're right. We're always in environments where it's difficult. I think, as I said, I take Calocurb in the morning, so I can intermittent fast. But for other people, breakfast is important part of their day. So, don't take it as that. Take Calocurb at 10:30 when you have a cup of coffee or whatever you're going to have at 10:30, and you'll eat less at lunch, you'll eat a smaller lunch. 

[00:42:06] What I like is you'll feel hungry longer. You know what is my fallback for me? Look, I'm the most boring person in the world, boiled eggs. I'm just a boiled egg person. And in America, we love it in America, because we go into CVS or something like that and you actually get boiled eggs we can just buy. We're embarrassingly boring. So, that was--

[00:42:31] God, in America, you have wonderful salads and you have them all year round. Just don't put the heavy dressings on them. Always ask for the dressing on the side and just have some good olive oil and some vinegar or balsamic or something like that. Your choice there and affordability, your choice is magnificent for all foods, but you have wonderful salads and fruit there. But as an older woman, get that protein. I'm sorry, my fallback is eggs. It'd be tinned salmon, chicken breast. I know that's not easy all the time.

[00:43:07] My husband and I had a chicken salad last night. We got a rotisserie chicken. And so, I'll have that for lunch today. So, I know it's boring. It's really boring,. but [laughs] there isn't great choices that's what you do. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:43:22] Yeah. I wouldn't even say that. I think it's boring, I think it's simple. Sometimes the most simple things are the most straightforward and they're most sustainable. I have so loved this conversation. Please let listeners know how to connect with you outside of this podcast. We will be including in the show notes a lovely discount that you have permitted our community to be able to utilize and try the products out. 

Sarah Kennedy: [00:43:46] Right. So, we are just www.calocurb.com. C-A-L-O-C-U-R-B dotcom. You will find all the information on it, you'll find all the clinicals on it, you'll find its mode of action and you can ask questions. But yes, please look, try it. As I said, it's changed my relationship. I'd love others to have that experience. 

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:44:13] Absolutely. Thank you again for your time. 

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